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Merged Osama bin Laden dead,

Jekyll's Guest said:
Am I going nuts, or does the guy in the back (gray hair, blue shirt, looking over a shoulder) look like he was crudely added via Photoshop? It's like a Where's Waldo.
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Well Bin Laden was actually in that room with the gang the whole time. They had to cover him up in the photo.
 
Pardalis said:
Didn't Obama move some people around in his security agencies recently?
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Why would that have anything to do with it? That notion just doesn't mesh with the information that has been made public so far:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs...as-culmination-years-work-sr-admin-official-s

"Sunday afternoon’s raid by U.S. forces that killed Osama bin Laden was the “culmination of years of careful and highly advanced intelligence work,” senior administration officials said in a conference call"

The description of the chain of events just doesn't match a binary "Bush screwed up, Obama got it right" narrative. Obama got it right, but it took a long time to get right, starting from well before Obama took office.
 
Pardalis said:
Didn't Obama move some people around in his security agencies recently?
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Do you mean Penetta (CIA Director) to Secretary of Defense and Petraeus (ISAF/US Afghanistan Forces commander) to CIA Director? Hasn't happened yet.
 
Ziggurat said:
Why would that have anything to do with it? That notion just doesn't mesh with the information that has been made public so far:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs...as-culmination-years-work-sr-admin-official-s

"Sunday afternoon’s raid by U.S. forces that killed Osama bin Laden was the “culmination of years of careful and highly advanced intelligence work,” senior administration officials said in a conference call"

The description of the chain of events just doesn't match a binary "Bush screwed up, Obama got it right" narrative. Obama got it right, but it took a long time to get right, starting from well before Obama took office.
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dtugg said:
Do you mean Penetta (CIA Director) to Secretary of Defense and Petraeus (ISAF/US Afghanistan Forces commander) to CIA Director? Hasn't happened yet.
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But it does show a shift in focus.

It may be kind of a "Russian syndrome" effect, where all the advances in space exploration were achieved by the Russians but since America beat them to the Moon that's what people remember, but in the space race both the US and Russia were aiming at the same thing, not Bush and Obama. There is a clear difference in their goal.
 
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Giving credit to Obama or Bush is pretty iffy. The CIA got the intel. The Seals pulled the trigger. Now you can argue that the CIA is more efficient since Obama became Prez because of his appointments et. al., but such a claim would be extremely difficult to give definite proof for.

Personally, I have no problem letting Bush share the credit for this. I agreed with him when he sent troops into Afghanistan after 9/11 and I agreed with Obama when he continued the operation. If I fault Bush for anything, it is for drawing down the involvement in Afghanistan to fuel the ill-conceived, ill-executed invasion of Iraq. But at the time, Bush did the smart, but fairly obvious thing, of going after the people who caused the 9/11 attacks. It was an easy decision, and one that was almost universally supported. It was a little harder for Obama to justify continuing the action, what with the memory of 9/11 being more than seven years old, but he did the right thing too.

Right now, I'm really happy. Don't harsh my buzz with all this partisan crap.
 
'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This terrorist is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's fish food! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't dropped im in the ocean 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-TERRORIST!!
 
Ziggurat said:
No I didn't. What I said was
Ziggurat said:
the fact that the actionable intel came in during his watch and not earlier (or later) is largely a matter of luck.
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However you want to split that hair, it's still an unsubstantiated claim that clearly reveals a bias.

Ziggurat said:
Once the intel was obtained, killing him was not a matter of luck, and I never suggested otherwise. In fact, I said exactly the OPPOSITE of what you claimed, in that very same post:
Ziggurat said:
Obama certainly deserves credit for this
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Operative word added back in and bolded:
Ziggurat said:
Obama certainly deserves credit for this, but
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It's a classic set-up for a backhanded compliment

"Tom is a nice guy, but..."

Ziggurat said:
Next time you want to lie about what I say, try not making it so obvious.
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Next time you want to accuse someone of lying, try making sure they actually lied.

My claim was that you suggested Obama not receive credit, not that you stated it. It's a significant distinction.
 
Pardalis said:
But it does show a shift in focus.
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Not it doesn't. Gates (current SecDef) is retiring. Obama needs someone to fill his shoes. He thinks the best person is Panetta. Then he needs someone to fill Panetta's shoes. He thinks that is Petraeus . These seem like sound choices to me. But it doesn't signal any change in focus.
 
I'm a bit late to this party but I'd like to offer my heartiest congratulations to all the intelligence and military personnel who contributed to this operation and, speaking from the UK, also particularly to thank them for waiting until after the Royal Wedding. (If it had been before, we'd all have been crapping ourselves over the likelihood of a quick-and-dirty reprisal.)
 
Pardalis said:
ETA: I think Bush dropped the ball on OBL, and Obama picked it right up.
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I think Bush wuld have been reluctant to go into Pakistan without their permission, even if he had the same intel Obama had. And I think once Pakistan was told, OBL would be tipped off. Obama was smart not to tell Pakistan until Seal Team 6 was out of there.

I have strong suspicions high ranking Pakistani authorities were involved in protecting OBL.
 
applecorped said:
'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This terrorist is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's fish food! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't dropped im in the ocean 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-TERRORIST!!
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Lulz :D
 
I see that torture apologists are out in force over this.
 
dtugg said:
If toruture was used to gain intel that eventually tracked him down, would it have been worth it?
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It is my opinion that someone who truly supported the constitution and what it stands for would have to say no.

Shooting a washed up old terrorist in bed is not worth abandoning your country's essential principals, no matter how cathartic it may be.
 
Jekyll's Guest said:
It is my opinion that someone who truly supported the constitution and what it stands for would have to say no.

Shooting a washed up old terrorist in bed is not worth abandoning your country's essential principals, no matter how cathartic it may be.
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I don't think that the consitution should apply to foreign nationals captured outside of the country.
 
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