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Merged Osama bin Laden dead,

Skeptic said:
As opposed to the killing of a woman who was there as a "human shield", as the Navy SEALS did? Isn't this "unjudicial execution" -- of Osama and of her? Using forged passports is worse? And lets imagine the SEALs did for some reason use forged passports -- or that he was killed by CIA agents using them. Would there be outrage?

I think we all know the answer. There would be none, and there shouldn't be. If there is any moral responsibility for the death of this woman, it lies with Osama for deliberately using her as a "human shield" in the first place. And if forged passports are used to get to him, well, that's a minor issue compared to the need to get him in the first place.

But when it comes to Israel... things are different.
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Take it to another thread, Skeptic. To compare this event to the tit for tat that's been going on between Israel and the Palestinians for half a century is beyond ludicrous.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Care to summarize that Bush apology of yours?

Bush made the comment, ""I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
"I am truly not that concerned about him."
G.W. Bush.

We all saw it for ourselves. Your apologetics web site claims it was out of context. I fail to see it was out of context given how the web site explains it.
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Did you even read it? According the website, he only said the last sentence, which was out of context. The others were made up. The link to the transcript of the press conference is gone but MikeW (he's a member here) is an honest guy and I don't doubt him for second.
 
dtugg said:
Did you even read it? According the website, he only said the last sentence, which was out of context. The others were made up. The link to the transcript of the press conference is gone but MikeW (he's a member here) is an honest guy and I don't doubt him for second.
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I read it. Bush made the statement I cited. He was recorded. We all saw it.

I tried to figure out from the incoherent drivel what made it "out of context". They rambled on and on with their idea of what made the statement out of context.

Quote the whole thing in one piece if you want to show something is out of context. There's no need to ramble out some bizarre excuse for the comment.
Here's the actual record IN CONTEXT. I fail to see that the apology is valid. Bush dismisses his failure to get Bin Laden by claiming Bin Laden is no longer powerful. There was no evidence that was the case, there still isn't.

Yes, the often played clip is the worst thing Bush says in that interview. But the overall comment is typical Bush, pretending he was a success.
 
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/u..._strands_on_bin_laden_gathered_in_cia_prison/

May 2, 2011

WASHINGTON — Officials say CIA interrogators in secret overseas prisons developed the first strands of information that ultimately led to the killing of Osama bin Laden.

Current and former U.S. officials say that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, provided the nom de guerre of one of bin Laden’s most trusted aides. The CIA got similar information from Mohammed’s successor, Abu Faraj al-Libi. Both were subjected to harsh interrogation tactics inside CIA prisons in Poland and Romania.
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Just think of what we could have learned if we could have captured Bin Laden and been allowed to waterboard HIM. As is, I bet al-Qaeda is scrambling because they can't really know what we found in the compound at this time. Reportedly, we walked away with hard drives and volumes of other materials. They need to act quickly so they can capitalize on this intelligence before al-Qaeda can make many changes. :D
 
LTC8K6 said:
Nancy Pelosi, press conference, September 7, 2006:

[E]ven if [Osama bin Laden] is caught tomorrow, it is five years too late. He has done more damage the longer he has been out there. But, in fact, the damage that he has done ... is done. And even to capture him now I don't think makes us any safer.

Nancy Pelosi, earlier today:

The death of Osama bin Laden marks the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida. ... I salute President Obama, his national security team, Director Panetta, our men and women in the intelligence community and military, and other nations who supported this effort for their leadership in achieving this major accomplishment. ... [T]he death of Osama bin Laden is historic....
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Back in 06, Bin Laden's death may not have made us safer. This is 2011. A whole lot has changed since then. The Iraq war has wound down. The military actions in Afghanistan and Pakistan have become more precise. The intelligence is superior as evidenced by this operation.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Care to summarize that Bush apology of yours?

Bush made the comment, ""I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
"I am truly not that concerned about him."
G.W. Bush.

We all saw it for ourselves. Your apologetics web site claims it was out of context. I fail to see it was out of context given how the web site explains it.
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I never said it was out of context. I said it is a "(f)ictitious quote". If I am incorrect I will happily admit it - I'm here to learn. I am having difficulty finding the transcript on whitehouse.gov. Since we all saw it for ourselves maybe you can link to a video for me? Please?

I just watched this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o

and Bush never says these words.

Looking here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2070268

or here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/918437/posts

I still don't see Bush as having actually made the statement attributed to him. If I am wrong please help set me straight.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I read it. Bush made the statement I cited. He was recorded. We all saw it.

I tried to figure out from the incoherent drivel what made it "out of context". They rambled on and on with their idea of what made the statement out of context.

Quote the whole thing in one piece if you want to show something is out of context. There's no need to ramble out some bizarre excuse for the comment.
Here's the actual record IN CONTEXT. I fail to see that the apology is valid. Bush dismisses his failure to get Bin Laden by claiming Bin Laden is no longer powerful. There was no evidence that was the case, there still isn't.

Yes, the often played clip is the worst thing Bush says in that interview. But the overall comment is typical Bush, pretending he was a success.
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You fail. That video doesn't show him making those comments. Did you even watch it?
 
dtugg said:
Did you even read it? According the website, he only said the last sentence, which was out of context. The others were made up. The link to the transcript of the press conference is gone but MikeW (he's a member here) is an honest guy and I don't doubt him for second.
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Actually if you read it he says "I dont know where he (bin Laden) is." Twice in two consecutive answers. And he follows it with..
"You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you."
And...
"I truly am not that concerned about him."

Which is, any way you read it, politically insensitive to the 9/11 survivors and families to say the least.
 
Nosi said:
The man's dead. Who really up and cares what happens to the meat really... The United States does need to maintain its friendships and if not actual friendships, 'you scratch my back, I scratch yours' relationships as they can get critical in the dark of black ops.
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When we're respecting the religious wishes of a monster who killed because of that same religion, I care what happens to its mortal remains. They should be desecrated.

But I'm happy that it wound up as fish bait after all, even if it wasn't ground up first.

I'm also not convinced that Pakistan is anything remotely approaching a "friend" to the US.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
"followed" in real time. Brennan made a point of refusing to say if that was video, audio or something else.
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I know. I posted my comment from a news story on the tube before the press conference, which I also saw.

We're on the same page. ;) :)
 
dtugg said:
You fail. That video doesn't show him making those comments. Did you even watch it?
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I watched it. And I watched Bush deny it here:

Here's the "long version" of the press conference.


So the argument made here is that the words are not an exact quote. But the comments are the same. There is no smoking gun in the claim the comments are out of context. Bush's comments are exactly what they sound like, he's dismissing Bin Laden as unimportant rather than admitting Bush has failed to get him.
 
Emet said:
I know. I posted my comment from a news story on the tube before the press conference, which I also saw.

We're on the same page. ;) :)
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Given that the military has videoed these events before for propaganda benefit, I bet there is a video and we will see it eventually.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I watched it. And I watched Bush deny it here:

Here's the "long version" of the press conference.


So the argument made here is that the words are not an exact quote. But the comments are the same. There is no smoking gun in the claim the comments are out of context. Bush's comments are exactly what they sound like, he's dismissing Bin Laden as unimportant rather than admitting Bush has failed to get him.
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So it is correct that the quote was falsified. Anyway, it sounds to me like he is saying that it is more important to go after al Qaeda and the Taliban as a whole rather than focus on bin Laden. Which is true.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
I watched it. And I watched Bush deny it here:

Here's the "long version" of the press conference.


So the argument made here is that the words are not an exact quote. But the comments are the same. There is no smoking gun in the claim the comments are out of context. Bush's comments are exactly what they sound like, he's dismissing Bin Laden as unimportant rather than admitting Bush has failed to get him.
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OK - this is a joke, right?
Drongo Shrub did not say "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority" in the video you have linked to.

It is important - to me - to know whether he said "Dad" or "Daddy". To know whether the story was titled "The Pet Goat" or "My Pet Goat". Maybe we're just not on the same page.
 
BibleWelt said:
I never said it was out of context. I said it is a "(f)ictitious quote". If I am incorrect I will happily admit it - I'm here to learn. I am having difficulty finding the transcript on whitehouse.gov. Since we all saw it for ourselves maybe you can link to a video for me? Please?

I just watched this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o

and Bush never says these words.

Looking here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2070268

or here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/918437/posts

I still don't see Bush as having actually made the statement attributed to him. If I am wrong please help set me straight.
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Your implication is that the out of context misstated words distort what is being claimed that Bush said.

If Bush said, "I don't care if they find Bin Laden", and the quote is claimed to be, "I'm not concerned about Bin Laden", or vice versa, why waste your time arguing such a trivial difference?

If Bush had said, "we are working hard to get Bin Laden but in the meantime I think we are keeping him from being effective", and someone made that into a claim Bush said he didn't care about Bin Laden, that would have merit.

You are essentially arguing a minor misquote is important when that does not in any way change the meaning of what Bush said. Bush's comments in that interview were atrocious and the differences from what was said and what was claimed to have been said are so minor as to not change what one hears listening to the actual video.


So what is your point? Bush never said those exact words but he said something very close?

Or are you trying to claim, as your web link implied in it's ridiculously contorted apology, that Bush really said something completely different which was being distorted by the quote attributed to him?
 
Former President George W. Bush

"Earlier this evening, President Obama called to inform me that American forces killed Osama bin Laden, the leader of the al-Qaida network that attacked America on September 11, 2001. I congratulated him and the men and women of our military and intelligence communities who devoted their lives to this mission. They have our everlasting gratitude. This momentous achievement marks a victory for America, for people who seek peace around the world, and for all those who lost loved ones on September 11, 2001. The fight against terror goes on, but tonight America has sent an unmistakable message: No matter how long it takes, justice will be done."

Former Vice President Dick Cheney

The ex-Bush official tells NBC News (on this page) : "It's tremendous news, it really is a great day for an awful lot of people who worked very, very hard for a long time. Think about the bravery and courage of the men who carried out the operation."
"It's also a good day for the administration. President Obama and his national security team acted on the intelligence when it came in, and they deserve a lot of credit too."
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42853022/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/
 
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