Organic Woo?

[tkingdoll]

Brown eggs are brown because they come from brown birds.

White eggs are white because they come from white birds.

Nutritionally they are identical.

 

[krazyKemist]

Never believed one second to that "organic" thing. Pure exploitation of people's fear (with claims they haven't proved) and a dab at environmental and animal ethics issues (which is their official discourse on why people will pay more for organic... but I would bet my hat that the main reason for most buyers is very far from concern about environment and animal well-being). What's natural ? Botulic toxin is natural. E. Coli is also pretty natural. The biggest organic farms, in an attempt to obtain the same yield of crops as their 'traditional' neighbors will : 1) Work the soil so much that the ecosystem (bacteria, worms, fungi... You know, the stuff that makes good 'living' soil) is totally destroyed. A need to put more "organic" fertilizer (in other words, dung) follows. Since that soil has lost most of its capacity to retain it, it drops right into the underground water, which the locals happen to drink... Et voilà, E. coli diarrhea. But no problem, that's natural. River full of toxic blue algae. More gas being burned into the machines. Gee, that's some environmental benefit, isn't it ? 2) Some are even stupid enough to put "organic" fertilizer on leafy vegetables, like spinach, when they've grown the leaves. Remember that massive recall ? Well, maybe diarrhea protects against cancer or something... (if you listen to the detoxifying colonics crowd it does) If at least they offered other, different varieties of vegetables, like the heirloom varieties that we are slowly losing. But no, most of them offer you the very same carrot, which they claim, has more vitamins (that's patently false... Some veggies even have less vitamins when grown organically because they have less access to nutrients). And why that fear of "synthetic" fertilizers ? Do they even know where it comes from ? It is mostly mineral ! Crushed rocks off the bottom of ancient disappeared oceans ! Do you think the carrot cares if it gets its potassium out of cow dung or crushed rock ? the Kemist

 

[tracer]

But ... but ... everybody knows brown things are better for you than white things!

I mean, look at rice! Right?

 

[zombiebex]

That's what I think they want us to think.

Rice, bread, sugar... all "better for you" before it's been turned white. Brown is somehow more natural and less tampered with.

Even though it's the same damn thing.

 

[skeptifem]

That's what I think they want us to think.

Rice, bread, sugar... all "better for you" before it's been turned white. Brown is somehow more natural and less tampered with.

Even though it's the same damn thing.

you might want to check the glicemic index on those foods. they are essentially the same thing, but a lot of grains/similar foods take longer to digest and release glucose at a slower rate than their proccessed and bleached versions. that is better.

 

[zombiebex]

I mean brown eggs and white eggs, rather.

 

[Jorghnassen]

My godfather has chickens which produce green eggs.

/no really
//tasty tasty chickens

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

I've had green eggs before. Very interesting to view under a microscope.

 

[Abooga]

My two cents about free range and cages (not exactly on topic but someone mentioned it):

I´ve been in a chicken farm with both types of farming. The free range chickens lived in an open building with a small grassy field that they could go out to if they wanted, not sure all of them do, but at least they were running around the place and looked quite healthy.

Caged chickens were a really horrible thing to watch. They had (must do to be competitive) 4 chickens in each tiny cage that looked designed for just one chicken (and even that would be bad). They all had half of the feathers missing and looked really stressed, with lots of injuries from picking each other.

Needless to say, I only buy free range now...

 

[tkingdoll]

I often buy blue eggs (Cotswold Legbar). They look pretty much the same once cracked though.

http://www.clarencecourt.co.uk/

 

[krazyKemist]

you might want to check the glicemic index on those foods. they are essentially the same thing, but a lot of grains/similar foods take longer to digest and release glucose at a slower rate than their proccessed and bleached versions. that is better.

Don't want to spoil your fun, but it's been demonstrated that 'complex sugar' does not mean anything as to the speed of sugar release... Seems the enzyme that takes care of this is very very efficient.

If you want to slow down the absorption of sugar, one thing that may help would be soluble fiber (instead of the bulk fiber found in whole grains). Soluble fiber is available in oatmeal, fruits, and pulses. Whole grain however contain more vitamins, if they are really complete and contain the core.

the Kemist

 

[HawkeyeMD]

I'm pretty skeptical on the whole subject of 'organic' in general, for most of the reasons already cited, but I found out something interesting a few weeks ago.

One of the major formula companies (I won't specify, but you can bet that if they're the only ones right now, the rest will shortly follow) is now promoting its new "Organic" formula. I asked the rep directly what the difference was--they supply for the hospital I did my pediatric rotation in--and got absolutely no clear answer. (Which means very little, but still.) Except for this...drum roll...it costs more. (Pause for recovery from the shock, I know.)

The opinion of the residents and attendings is that they're about to be hoist on their own petard, because if this stuff is supposedly better, what possible excuse can they have for continuing to manufacture the original stuff? Won't someone think of the chidren????

 

[kellyb]

I'm pretty skeptical on the whole subject of 'organic' in general, for most of the reasons already cited, but I found out something interesting a few weeks ago.

One of the major formula companies (I won't specify, but you can bet that if they're the only ones right now, the rest will shortly follow) is now promoting its new "Organic" formula. I asked the rep directly what the difference was--they supply for the hospital I did my pediatric rotation in--and got absolutely no clear answer. (Which means very little, but still.) Except for this...drum roll...it costs more. (Pause for recovery from the shock, I know.)

The opinion of the residents and attendings is that they're about to be hoist on their own petard, because if this stuff is supposedly better, what possible excuse can they have for continuing to manufacture the original stuff? Won't someone think of the chidren????

Organic formula should be made with milk from cows not given BGH, right?
Which, although there's no evidence that it's actually bad, might not be a great thing to give babies?

 

[HawkeyeMD]

Organic formula should be made with milk from cows not given BGH, right?
Which, although there's no evidence that it's actually bad, might not be a great thing to give babies?

Theoretically, I suppose. But the point remains: what possible excuse do they have to keep selling the other stuff if the very existence of the organic is a concession that it's not good enough?

(FWIW, I not only have my doubts about the evidence regarding hormones/antibiotics and cow's milk, but I would think the whole process of making formula out of it--especially the powdered kind!--would pretty much negate any danger there was.)

 

[kellyb]

Theoretically, I suppose. But the point remains: what possible excuse do they have to keep selling the other stuff if the very existence of the organic is a concession that it's not good enough?

(FWIW, I not only have my doubts about the evidence regarding hormones/antibiotics and cow's milk, but I would think the whole process of making formula out of it--especially the powdered kind!--would pretty much negate any danger there was.)

They'd probably just say that while there's no reason to believe there's anything wrong with conventional milk, they're happy to supply an organic option to those who prefer it for whatever reason.
Pretty much like what all the other producers of both organic and conventional products say.

 

[Rolfe]

I have to say that the whole business of putting Bovine Somatotrophin into milking cows gives me the screaming ab-dabs, and I'm pretty glad it's not done here.

I think it's a pity if you have to go the whole organic woo nine yards to avoid it in the US.

Rolfe.

 

[HawkeyeMD]

They'd probably just say that while there's no reason to believe there's anything wrong with conventional milk, they're happy to supply an organic option to those who prefer it for whatever reason.
Pretty much like what all the other producers of both organic and conventional products say.

Yeah, you're right, of course. It probably seemed funnier at the end of an on-call shift than it reads here.

 

[krazyKemist]

Theoretically, I suppose. But the point remains: what possible excuse do they have to keep selling the other stuff if the very existence of the organic is a concession that it's not good enough?

(FWIW, I not only have my doubts about the evidence regarding hormones/antibiotics and cow's milk, but I would think the whole process of making formula out of it--especially the powdered kind!--would pretty much negate any danger there was.)

In my opinion, the risks posed by BGH in milk are about nil... If there was BHG in milk, it is still a peptidic hormone... One that gets digested (destroyed) to its amino acids constituents when it goes through the digestive tract.

Growth hormone usually has to be injected to have any effect at all. Ask athletes !

the Kemist

 

[Cuddles]

Just to chip in on the chicken thing. Free range is defined as having a certain area available per chicken and them not being confined individually. I'm not sure exactly what "cage-free" means but I rather suspect it simply means that they do not give their chickens enough space to qualify as free range.

The sad thing about free range is that is nothing like most people seem to think. For example, my parents currently have six chickens that are kept in a hutch with a fenced off area next to it. Most people who see it think it is suprisingly small and the chickens easily destroy all the vegetation in it within a couple of weeks (the fence is moved to allow it to grow back). On a working, free range farm the same area would contain somewhere between 50 and 100 chickens. Free range is better than battery, but don't be fooled into thinking that the chickens actually have enough space.

 

[luchog]

That's what I think they want us to think.

Rice, bread, sugar... all "better for you" before it's been turned white. Brown is somehow more natural and less tampered with.

Even though it's the same damn thing.

Not even remotely true.

Grains, sugar, etc. are only made white by having substantial components of the raw product removed. In the case of sugar, the part that is removed becomes molasses, which contains all the nutritive components of the original unprocessed source (eg. sugarcane juice, beet juice, etc). The molasses removed from sugar contains moderate amounts of vitamin B6 and selenium, and substantial amounts of manganese, iron, calcium, copper, potassium, and magnesium. White sugar contains no notable nutritive value whatsoever.

In the case of grains, they're "whitened" by removing the bran and germ, where most of the nutritive components reside, leaving only the endosperm which is predominantly starch and gluten. However, the variety of grain will also make a huge difference in the nutritive value. For example, harder, darker-coloured wheats (generally used for "whole" grain products) contain higher levels of nutrients and proteins than the softer, lighter-coloured wheats typically used for "white" products.

In the case of eggs, the colour is determined exclusively by the breed of chicken that lays the egg. The nutritive value is not related to the breed or colour, but to the feeding and general health of the chickens laying the eggs. Factory-farmed brown eggs (yes, these are available) are similarly low in nutritive content when compared to factor farmed white eggs.

The primary difference between egg colours (that is, eggs from different chicken breeds) is the taste. The difference can be subtle or distinct. Although white and brown are the most common, a few species can lay more unusual colours like blue, green, and purple from Araucana variety chickens (my personal favorites are the green Araucanas).