Organic Sprouts

[The Mad Hatter]

A while ago, I decided I was going to make my sandwiches and stir-fries more interesting, and began looking for some extra vegetables I could put in. I heard that sprouts were very healthful, since they contained nutrients needed to help grow into a real plant. So I got a box of them, and checked Wikipedia to see if it agreed, and saw that it did. But the article also mentioned that sprouts can be dangerous if eaten raw, since they contain a lot of toxins (kind of ironic, seeing as this is the raw foodist's favourite meal).

I looked through a bunch of pubmed abstracts, and found that this was true. Sprouts do apparently contain a potentially harmful amount of E. coli and Salmonella. Not much of a concern for me, because I'll probably cook them anyway. But I mentioned this to my friend, who is quite the sprout enthusiast, and she told me that that's only the case if they're not organic. After a bit of pestering, I got her to admit that her only source of information was a promoter of organic foods, and that she had no idea why non-organically grown sprouts would have higher levels of toxins. So naturally, I'm skeptical.

Does anyone know if this is the case? Have any studies been done that either confirm or falsify this? And why would organic sprouts have less bacteria, if that is indeed the case?

 

[Zep]

The alternative to "organic" sprouts is "INorganic" sprouts - made of...rocks, perhaps?

The only reason ANY foodstuff has bacteria is that they were allowed to grow there. Stuff grown "organically" is just as liable to get bacteria in it as any other if it is allowed to be subject to bacteria exposure.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm not sure why sprouts should be particularly prone to contamination by enteropathogenic bacteria, but I'll take your word for it.

One thing I'd take a bet on however is that "organically" grown vegetables are far more likely to have such contamination. "Natural" manure, manure from animals that haven't been treated for enteric disease, that sort of thing.

It's amazing the woo some of these "organic" types will spout. So long as you don't use any of these unnatural preventatives and treatments, then your produce is guaranteed to be healthy and free of all diseases. Horsehockey.

Rolfe.

 

[MortFurd]

A while ago, I decided I was going to make my sandwiches and stir-fries more interesting, and began looking for some extra vegetables I could put in. I heard that sprouts were very healthful, since they contained nutrients needed to help grow into a real plant. So I got a box of them, and checked Wikipedia to see if it agreed, and saw that it did. But the article also mentioned that sprouts can be dangerous if eaten raw, since they contain a lot of toxins (kind of ironic, seeing as this is the raw foodist's favourite meal).

I looked through a bunch of pubmed abstracts, and found that this was true. Sprouts do apparently contain a potentially harmful amount of E. coli and Salmonella. Not much of a concern for me, because I'll probably cook them anyway. But I mentioned this to my friend, who is quite the sprout enthusiast, and she told me that that's only the case if they're not organic. After a bit of pestering, I got her to admit that her only source of information was a promoter of organic foods, and that she had no idea why non-organically grown sprouts would have higher levels of toxins. So naturally, I'm skeptical.

Does anyone know if this is the case? Have any studies been done that either confirm or falsify this? And why would organic sprouts have less bacteria, if that is indeed the case?

If anything, organically grown stuff here would have MORE bacteria. Germans use a lot of natural fertilizer (bulls hit and similar substances) on their organic veggies, so there's actually more chance of getting e. coli on your sprouts and organic lettuce.

 

[andyandy]

whatever the veracity, i now have a ready made excuse next christmas....

"I'm not being fussy, it's just that I've heard these contain lots of toxins"....

 

[Capsid]

I think the toxins referred to in the OP are those found naturally in some legumes. For example, red kidney beans contain the lectin phytohaemagglutinin; they have to be boiled for at least 10 minutes to denature the toxin.

 

[strathmeyer]

So you're saying eating sprouts will help my immune system?

 

[Stitch]

I'll eat any veg raw, including spuds. We grow sprouts in our veggie garden and I quite happily munch on raw ones whilst picking with no ill effects to date.

 

[casebro]

Yes, sprouts can have toxins.

I'm a homebrewer of beer. I turned gluten sensitive, so have to make Sorghum beer. The first step is to 'malt' (or sprout) the grain. Once malted and dried, you have to remove the 'spout' (acrospire) and rootlet form the grains. Because Sorghum makes Cyanide in it's sprouts. So, yes, sprouts can have toxins.

 

[Rolfe]

"Toxins" like cyanide and phytohaemagglutinin which are actually in the plant are different from bacteria such as E. coli or Salmonella which would be surface contaminants, probably getting there by way of organic manure fertiliser.

However, I see no reason why "organically" grown sprouts should contain less of a natural internal toxin, and every reason why they might in fact contain more contaminant bacteria.

Maybe this "everything natural and organic must by definition be safe and good to eat" is a new evolutionary selection pressure.

Rolfe.

 

[Pipirr]

Maybe this "everything natural and organic must by definition be safe and good to eat" is a new evolutionary selection pressure.

Rolfe.

 

[Jorghnassen]

One thing I'd take a bet on however is that "organically" grown vegetables are far more likely to have such contamination. "Natural" manure, manure from animals that haven't been treated for enteric disease, that sort of thing.

Since when did organic farmers get the exclusivity of using composted manure as a fertilizer? Did traditional agriculture create cows and hogs that don't poop yet? What else are you going to do with their waste anyway? Then again, all fertilizers can lead to pollution issues (blue-green algae's all the rage these days).

But yeah, fresh vegetables, no matter what set of techniques is used to grow them, are not immune contamination from toxins/bacteria... In fact, I recall reading that of all the food one can buy, fresh fruits and veggies are the worst offenders in that matter (they are the least processed, after all).

 

[Mongrel]

If anything, organically grown stuff here would have MORE bacteria. Germans use a lot of natural fertilizer (bulls hit and similar substances) on their organic veggies, so there's actually more chance of getting e. coli on your sprouts and organic lettuce.

If it's Brussel Sprouts the OP is talking about then I'd take a stab at way the leaves are layered as an additional factor, lot's of room for all sorts of nasties to get trapped under

 

[sophia8]

If it's Brussel Sprouts the OP is talking about then I'd take a stab at way the leaves are layered as an additional factor, lot's of room for all sorts of nasties to get trapped under

I think the OP is talking about sprouted beans or grains, not brussel sprouts.
If it's the former, then I don't see why they should carry much bacteria, unless the water they've been soaked in is contaminated.

 

[MortFurd]

Since when did organic farmers get the exclusivity of using composted manure as a fertilizer? Did traditional agriculture create cows and hogs that don't poop yet? What else are you going to do with their waste anyway? Then again, all fertilizers can lead to pollution issues (blue-green algae's all the rage these days).

But yeah, fresh vegetables, no matter what set of techniques is used to grow them, are not immune contamination from toxins/bacteria... In fact, I recall reading that of all the food one can buy, fresh fruits and veggies are the worst offenders in that matter (they are the least processed, after all).

Many (most?) American farmers don't use manure as fertilizer. You have no control over how much of what nutrient is in it. Using manure, you may be dumping in loads of nitrates when you only need a little - but you have to use the full load, so to speak, because you need a lot of something else. It's more accurate, less wasteful, and less damaging to the enviroment if you only fertilize with the nutrients needed in the amounts needed. And, you get fewer bacteria (and less *****) on your lettuce.

 

[Amapola]

I used to work at a sprout factory and they did not use manure or any other fertilizer. The sprouts were grown on small foam pads with water, which was sprayed on them by overhead sprayers at timed intervals. As far as I know, growing them in the home does not use manure or other fertilizer either. All the sprouters I have ever seen just use water. Manure is not the issue here.

According to this FDA article, one of the things they are focusing on at this time is treating the seed to be sure it is not contaminated. Of course the water must also not be conaminated.

 

[Jorghnassen]

Many (most?) American farmers don't use manure as fertilizer. You have no control over how much of what nutrient is in it. Using manure, you may be dumping in loads of nitrates when you only need a little - but you have to use the full load, so to speak, because you need a lot of something else. It's more accurate, less wasteful, and less damaging to the enviroment if you only fertilize with the nutrients needed in the amounts needed. And, you get fewer bacteria (and less *****) on your lettuce.

I understand that, I just wanted to point out that manure is still an issue in conventional agriculture (the amount of which is used as fertilizer or not essentially becoming a moot point as manure on an industrial scale turns into a major waste management problem). As a second point, I'm not entirely sure by how much "organic" farming differs from conventional agriculture (particularly in terms of fertilizer and pesticide use: what and how much is used on "average" or overall in each case), especially since organic farming has now grown into industrial scale and is in many ways integrated with the rest of agribusiness.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Thanks for the replies. I'll clarify a few things, which I probably should have mentioned in the OP. By "sprouts" I'm talking about legume sprouts; not Brussels sprouts, but if you do have something cool to say about Brussels sprouts, be my guest. Also, I completely agree that at first glance, it would make much more sense if organic sprouts had a higher amount of bacteria. I was mostly hoping that someone with more intimate knowledge of the subject could confirm or deny it, and hopefully get me in touch with some peer-reviewed studies. But I do enjoy reading everyone's opinions.

I did a bit more reading, and picked up a few facts:
-It is believed that the contamination originates with the seeds; not with the way the sprouts are raised.
-Organic farming offers no significantly effective way of cleaning the sprouts. Conventional farming, on the other hand, allows chlorination and irradiation, both of which eliminate almost all of the toxins. I have no idea how many farms actually do this though, and would be interested in finding out.
-Sites promoting organic foods seem to all make the claim "While organic sprouts may have a higher level of E. Coli, there is no evidence that they have a higher level of pathogenic bacteria." They seem to already acknowledge that there is a higher level of contamination. If that weren't the case, and my friend were right, I would expect these promoters to exploit the hell of of it.

So I think I can safely conclude, for now at least, that my friend's claim is BS.


Oh, and a small correction to make: Maybe Wikipedia was speaking connotatively, or maybe it was just wrong, but when it said toxins, it probably should have said pathogenic bacteria. I haven't found any papers suggesting that sprouts have a dangerous level of toxins, but if anyone knows of any, then by all means post them. I think I referred to the bacteria as toxins a couple times as well.

 

[Michael Redman]

-Organic farming offers no significantly effective way of cleaning the sprouts. Conventional farming, on the other hand, allows chlorination and irradiation, both of which eliminate almost all of the toxins.

Is it generally accepted that organic farming precludes sterilization by irradiation?

 

[Jorghnassen]

Is it generally accepted that organic farming precludes sterilization by irradiation?

I believe so. Same with genetically modified organism (through molecular recombinant technology). So you can use Bt on your organic corn crops (certified organic pesticide, it's natural after all), but you can't grow Bt corn...