Organic produce more nutritionally "dense"?

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Also, also, also, regarding the comment someone made about measured vitamin content of certain produce falling over time. I could imagine that is possible because we are in fact growing different things - varieties that give high yields and grow faster. SO we aren't comparing like wit hlike.
That is most likely the most important explanation. But say an organic farmer chooses a low-yield variety on purpose. If he for instance wants to grow a variety of vegetable that has traditionally only been grown in the same little French mountain valley (insert your favourite idyllic farm setting). Then what?

What I am trying to say is, organic products can potentially have a higher nutrient value than a high yield product produced on an industrial scale. But there are no guarantees. I'm sure you could also find cases where a product that has been kept healthy using pesticides and has been given the scientifically perfect amount of fertilizer is better in most respects than the organic competition.
 
That is most likely the most important explanation. But say an organic farmer chooses a low-yield variety on purpose. If he for instance wants to grow a variety of vegetable that has traditionally only been grown in the same little French mountain valley (insert your favourite idyllic farm setting). Then what?
If this is the reason for the organic farmer's vegetables being higher in nutrients, then his vegetables are higher in nutrients because they are low-yield varieties, not because they're organically grown.
 
It has a very good section on organic food. In short, organic and non-organic put the same chemicals on the produce, it's just that in the case of Organic it's in the form of dung etc that has to rot down to release the nutrients compared with them being delivered directly in non-organic. Oh and you don't have all the bacteria etc associated with dung when you go with non-organic.

I do believe regular farming also uses composted manure as a fertilizer. In fact, industrial farming is not limited to the use of synthetic chemicals for fertilizers and pesticides (that is, they use plenty of "natural" stuff, it's just not "certified organic", Bt being a classic example...). What else are you going to do with all the crap cows, pigs and sheep produce anyway?

That is just to warn about all those false dichotomies between "organic" and "not organic" farming. There's quite a lot of overlap any way you look at it, and plenty of room for criticism (and some for praises) on both sides.

EDIT: Just wanted to add: has anybody read this book? Now I know the author of that book recommends buying organic but he does state that what's more important is buying from local (and small) producers, whether organic or not. I just want opinions as I've only read an interview with the guy and not the book itself.
 
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If this is the reason for the organic farmer's vegetables being higher in nutrients, then his vegetables are higher in nutrients because they are low-yield varieties, not because they're organically grown.
Yes. You could stretch the argument a little and say that a ye olde organic approach to things could give you more nutritious vegetables. This is all hypothetical, of course. But if I was to become an organic farmer, I would try to do something like this. (Which would be cool. River Cottage, anyone?) If you just stop using pesticides and start selling bad fruit and vegetables... "That don't impress me much."
 
Root vegetables like carrots and potatoes are known to soak up pesticides from the soil. Organic farmers will plant root vegetables to clean the soil from pesticides. Only eat organic root vegetables.
What? Since when? Any science behind this or is this just more woo woo?
 
What? Since when? Any science behind this or is this just more woo woo?

The first time I heard it was from a health food store owner. This might just be sales talk and it's also the reason why I started drinking organic carrot juice.
 
The first time I heard it was from a health food store owner. This might just be sales talk and it's also the reason why I started drinking organic carrot juice.
Ahh well we can trust health food store owners because they are experts in .......umm experts in...........umm making a profit selling health food?:D
 
'tsfunny - around these parts, "organic" produce is usually smaller, wrinkeled and full of spots and what appears to be fungus attack. And always a lot more expensive.
Spots and blemishes are not always indicative of rot or fungus. The vast majority of the time, that's just cosmetic and inconsequential. But Americans have been conditioned by decades of fruit and vegetables developed and grown for regularity, ease of handling, and cosmetic perfection; rather than nutrition or flavour.

I tend to buy organic, and grow my own when I have the capacity to do so, simply because it tastes better than the bland factory-farmed stuff.
 
Most apple blemishes on oganic apples are caused by apple scab, which is a fungus. It is difficult to control without spraying fungicides. I have a few apple trees and if they aren't sprayed several times a year, there is a very poor crop.
 
This might just be sales talk and it's also the reason why I started drinking organic carrot juice.
You started drinking organic carrot juice because root vegetables soak up pesticides and organic farmers use them to clean the soil of pesticides?
 
If apple scab is harmless for humans, then why bother with fungicides/pesticides?

Still, in the overall picture, I'd prefer local "non-organic" produced in accordance with current applicable legislation and regulations to maybe-not-so-controlled imported "organic" flown in on a thirsty, smoking old B707 cargo conversion, or driven up through Europe in huge trucks on congested motorways.

And if the "organic" tastes better I'll buy it - not just because it's "organic". "Organic" is not in and of itself a seal ofsuperior quality.
 
Ahh well we can trust health food store owners because they are experts in .......umm experts in...........umm making a profit selling health food?:D

A juicer I bought came with a manual telling me that juicing conventionally farmed fruit was a good way to avoid pesticide residues...written by an expert in selling juicers, no doubt :D
 
And if the "organic" tastes better I'll buy it - not just because it's "organic". "Organic" is not in and of itself a seal ofsuperior quality.

Amen to that. If it's tasty, non toxic and reasonably priced, I say buy it. Scaremongers on either side be damned.
 
I am an organic grower. We've managed our small farm organically for the last 5 years. We raise goats, a few pigs, chickens, garden vegetables and some fruit for sale at farmer's market. Actually, we're even beyond organic. We have a philosophy here of "if you can't eat it, you can't spray it." So I don't even use organically approved stuff like pyrethrum. Here's my take on the whole thing.

I think there's a huge amount of woo in the organic movement, however, I don't think it's all woo. I think most of the woo comes from organic consumer devotees rather than actual growers. I think they tend to read a piece of information or a study, then make illogical leaps based on the information. Then these mythical assumptions get passed around like gossip and are believed to be true. This "organic farmers will plant root vegetables to clean the soil from pesticides" smacks of this "myth phenomenon" to me. I know of no organic farmers that do that. They grow carrots because they are in an agricultural area that can grow good carrots, they have good deep topsoil, and because they have a market for them. Period. Good quality carrots are actually somewhat difficult to grow, so no one would do it for a non-profitable reason.

It is true that root crops tend to have more soil persistent pesticide residues in them than above ground crops. DDT and chlordane, both of which have been banned for decades are still being found in trace amounts on root vegetables, even organic ones.

http://www.chemistry.org/portal/a/c/s/1/feature_pro.html?id=c373e908bdb566e18f6a17245d830100

There are many good sound practices espoused by organic growers that are being carried over into "traditional" farming recommendations. As well as being a farmer, I am an active Master Gardener, so I spend a good deal of my time at the county extension office dispensing advice and information to local residents. If you look through most of the recommendation publications coming out of extension offices now vs 5 years ago, you will see a definite trend of advising less chemical control of various problems and more cultural control. The basic science behind organic methods is indeed there, in many cases.

Here's my opinion about the whole "nutritionally dense" thing. Freshly picked vegetables have more nutrients in them than less fresh vegetables. Sugars start breaking down into starches, and vitamins, particularly vitamin C, are lost the longer the produce stays on shelf. It's not a whole lot, though. This link says it's around 10%, normally. http://www.mydna.com/wellness/nutrition/scoop/nutrition_food_organic_vegetables.html

So, I think it would be relatively easy to "prove" that organic veggies were more "nutritionally dense" than typical supermarket veggies, if the researchers purchased the organic produce directly from the farm, or from say at a farmer's market, and got their conventionally grown produce from the average supermarket. What they would actually be proving, though, is that fresher produce has more vitamins in it than older produce.

Even choosing between organic and conventional foods from the same supermarket, the organic veggies are probably fresher. Conventional produce can be sprayed with antibacterial agents and stronger cleaners than organic processors are permitted to use, so conventional produce, in general lasts longer on the shelves than organic does. So, in general, the organic produce at the store has more frequent deliveries and a shorter farm to market time than the conventional.

If the research were between freshly picked produce of both types of farming methods, of the exact same variety of vegetable, in similar growing conditions, my personal bet is that there would be very little, if any, measureable nutritional difference between the two.

Just my two cents
Meg
 
One issue that is woo woo is the idea that root crops absorb chemicals. It is likely the chemical are entirely in the skin of the root crops and can be removed by vigorous washing or peeling.
 
Dogdoctor wrote:
One issue that is woo woo is the idea that root crops absorb chemicals. It is likely the chemical are entirely in the skin of the root crops and can be removed by vigorous washing or peeling.

It is woowoo to say that root crops absorb chemicals. That infers some special thing that root crops do that other crops don't do.

It is not woowoo, however, to say that the roots of plants absorb more soil persistent pesticide residues than other parts of the plants, because of their constant contact with the soil. So if you wish to eat the root of a plant, there is (potentially) a higher amount of soil persistent pesticide residue on that edible root than there would be on the leafy tops.

While washing and peeling a carrot will remove much of the residue, it will not remove it entirely.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20051126/food.asp

Meg
 
I buy organic eggs from local farms. I've come across a website that sells pullet eggs among others (Petaluma Farms). I haven't tried pullet eggs because they're not readily available but I do prefer smaller (medium and large rather than extra large and jumbo). The yolks seem more yellow and I think they taste better.

Pullet Eggs are Best
During the first 13 weeks of its egg-laying life and until it reaches 31 weeks of age, pullet hens produce their best quality eggs. After that, quality begins to drop off. Because the hens are still quite small, their eggs are generally small, but can be graded into pee wee, small, medium and large sizes. According to Moses, these are the only eggs to buy. He promotes the benefits of pullet eggs to anyone who stops by his stand at the market long enough to listen:

"Soufflés will rise higher!"

"Ice cream will be more luscious!"

"Omelets will have a lighter texture!"

He also readily points out that many chefs around the Bay Area see a noticeable difference in recipe performance when they use pullet eggs. He's so passionate about promoting pullet eggs that he teaches an egg appreciation class to budding chefs at the California Culinary Academy.

Consumers have been conditioned to think that "bigger is better" so they go for the large and extra large sizes in the supermarkets. These eggs are likely to be from older, adult hens and will be lower in quality than the smaller eggs from the adolescent pullet hens.

http://www.saturdaymarket.com/eggs1.htm
 
This pullet egg marketing sounds to me like a guy who figured out a way to get people to buy the slightly strange eggs that are typical to a young layer.

I've never noticed any difference flavorwise or cookingwise between our pullet eggs and a more mature hen's eggs, other than the new layers sometimes have kind of weird eggs for the first few weeks of laying. Small, differently colored, oddly shaped, two-yolkers, thicker shells and the like.
 
This pullet egg marketing sounds to me like a guy who figured out a way to get people to buy the slightly strange eggs that are typical to a young layer.

I've never noticed any difference flavorwise or cookingwise between our pullet eggs and a more mature hen's eggs, other than the new layers sometimes have kind of weird eggs for the first few weeks of laying. Small, differently colored, oddly shaped, two-yolkers, thicker shells and the like.

They have a chicken of the month.

http://www.methownet.com/chickenomonth.html
http://www.methownet.com/chickengallery.html
 
This pullet egg marketing sounds to me like a guy who figured out a way to get people to buy the slightly strange eggs that are typical to a young layer.

I've never noticed any difference flavorwise or cookingwise between our pullet eggs and a more mature hen's eggs, other than the new layers sometimes have kind of weird eggs for the first few weeks of laying. Small, differently colored, oddly shaped, two-yolkers, thicker shells and the like.

It's clever marketing, though, selling them as a premium product :D Butcher I use just sells them for a bit less than the bigger 'normal' small eggs...again never noticed much difference aside from the fact they're smaller.

I'd think that yolk colour depends more on diet, and to an extent hen breed, than whether the eggs or hens are big or small... If you want really rich, orange yolks and rich omellettes, though, nice fatty duck eggs are definitely the way to go :D
 

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