I don't have any problem with this, but I would not allow murderers to get TVs, because that is really an insult to the victims families -- for them to have to imagine the person who killed their loved one kicking back watching a VICTORIA'S SECRET special on his personal flat-screen.
Oregon Prisoners get Flat-Screen TVs....
- Thread starter Exposer
- Start date
I don't have any problem with this, but I would not allow murderers to get TVs, because that is really an insult to the victims families -- for them to have to imagine the person who killed their loved one kicking back watching a VICTORIA'S SECRET special on his personal flat-screen.
This is ridiculous. Some of our prisons are actually mini-resorts. The US needs to seriously toughen up its minimum security prisons, I'm tired of this bullsh*t. There are people in third world countries that would probably give everything they have if they knew their kid would be able to live in a minimum security "prison". I can't believe they're giving the prisoners cable, too! What the hell? We need to bring back tough labor. Make these prisoners do something productive that requires alot of physical exertion. And take away everything from their cells except a blanket, a sink, and a toilet.
The prisons that we have now are probably better than some retirement homes or college dorms.
The prisons that we have now are probably better than some retirement homes or college dorms.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
You have to ask yourself, what are they being punished for. The majority of prison inmates are not there for violent crime. Many of them are just junkies, poor people, etc.
Mr Manifesto
Illuminator
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2003
- Messages
- 4,815
Sounds cushy when you use the word 'flat-screen'. Then you notice it's only seven inches, ie, less than half the size of the monitor I'm using right now- which wouldn't make a very good TV.
Note, also, that there were brawls in the communal TV room. I once lived in a boarding house, and there were fist-fights a-plenty in the TV room there. I can only imagine how it gets when the subject of Pop Idol vs CSI: Miami comes up in Oregon.
As the article, and posters such as Suddenly argues, the TV's are also an incentive for good behaviour. You can't use the stick all the time, at some point there has to be a carrot.
Otherwise, I agree. Take 'em all out and shoot 'em. It's the only language they understand. I'd pull the lever meself.
Note, also, that there were brawls in the communal TV room. I once lived in a boarding house, and there were fist-fights a-plenty in the TV room there. I can only imagine how it gets when the subject of Pop Idol vs CSI: Miami comes up in Oregon.
As the article, and posters such as Suddenly argues, the TV's are also an incentive for good behaviour. You can't use the stick all the time, at some point there has to be a carrot.
Otherwise, I agree. Take 'em all out and shoot 'em. It's the only language they understand. I'd pull the lever meself.
You always could in the past : debtors prisons and vagrancy laws, not to mention an enforced stay at the workhouse (a prison by another name) in Victorian times.Exposer said:poor people?
You can get arrested for that these days?
The point is, I assume, that if someone is in prison because of a low-grade crime that stems from poverty such as shoplifting, defaulting on debts and that sort of thing, whilst it is right that they are punished, extracting every last ounce of vengeance seems especially pointless.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
They can afford to buy their way out of it, usually. The poor get the ◊◊◊◊◊◊ legal representative, and if they can't afford to pay the fine, guess what happens?
True, and I did say that they deserve to be punished. I'm not for a moment suggesting that poverty is an excuse for crime, and that the poor should somehow be able to avoid punishment (as AUP points out, that's normally - though not exclusively - the preserve of the wealthy).Exposer said:
epepke
Philosopher
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2003
- Messages
- 9,264
While I'm not necessarily an advocate of giving convicted felons TV-privileges at all, this is pretty bogus. I've gone to toilets in sports bars where the game was playing on a 7 inch LCD at every urinal. If anything, it seemed to me a bit tacky.
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
1. The guy paid for it with money he earned doing a job that provides him with work skills and experience he will be able to use to find a job when he gets out.
2. Fewer people in the recreation room means fewer fights and a less violent environment.
Please explain how this is a bad thing?
2. Fewer people in the recreation room means fewer fights and a less violent environment.
Please explain how this is a bad thing?
Mr Manifesto
Illuminator
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2003
- Messages
- 4,815
Exposer said:
Define 'murderer'. If your definition is as broad as it seems to be so far, my answer is, 'no'.
Mr Manifesto
Illuminator
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2003
- Messages
- 4,815
Exposer said:I think "murder" is a definable crime, is it not?
Now if you're talking about "manslaughter" or "justifiable homicide," then hey -- flat screens all around.
My cousin stabbed his father to death in a fit of rage. He did time for murder. If he had his time over again, he wouldn't do it. But, of course, one cannot undo what has been done. I don't think denying my cousin TV privileges would have helped to make him a better person.
Mr Manifesto
Illuminator
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2003
- Messages
- 4,815
Exposer said:
Then I guess it's a good thing you aren't in charge of the prison system.
In the UK, politicians have a habit of talking tough about prison when in opposition (decrying prisoners privileges and so on) but once in government, quietly follow a far more reformist line. Even Home Secretaries you would think belonged to the hang-em and flog-em brigade such as Michael Howard and David Blunkett seem to do this to some extent.
I think that the "let's be really nasty to prisoners" can win votes and panders to the press, but once they are faced with the reality of having to run prisons effectively with some opportunity for prisoners to reform and learn useful skills for when they are released, this simplistic approach is no longer appropriate.
I think that the "let's be really nasty to prisoners" can win votes and panders to the press, but once they are faced with the reality of having to run prisons effectively with some opportunity for prisoners to reform and learn useful skills for when they are released, this simplistic approach is no longer appropriate.
Suddenly
Unregistered
S
Exposer said:
I don't. It just is an arbitrary cutoff. Plus, even within the category of "murderer" there are quite a few different categories.
If we are going to consider a TV "an insult to the victim's family" then what difference does it make what crime it is? I'd think it more an insult in your scenerio when considering a rapist and the actual victim; or a child molestor watching a children's show. It would bother the victim of a stock scam that the crooked banker was watching the market reports.
and so on...
It is best to leave the running of prisons up to the people that run them. We seperate punishment from the particular wishes of the victim as it is a question of what is best for the whole society, and not just a question of satisying a victim's need for vengence, or for that matter the punishment fetish that seems to be rampant in this country. Taking a way a cheap and effective tool to encourage rehabilitation and ordered living seems a silly reaction.
Being in prison is enough punishment. No amount of miniscule TVs or other token items are going to make up having your freedom and privacy almost completely taken away, and being locked in a place where violent men are experiencing the same crisis and looking for a way to try to establish dignity and control. Sure, there is the occasional person that actually likes prison, although there are a lot more that will claim so as a method of trying to fool themselves into believing the "control" thing I laid on you above than that actually really are happy there. The ones that are happy tend to be pretty predatory sexual monsters, so I think that would tend to support my above claim about prison being punishment enough.