Orange Juice Placebo?

RSLancastr said:
I currently take more than a dozen medications every day - three for blood pressure alone. So, although I appreciate the recommendation, I'm not about to add anything to that mix without clearing it with my doc first.
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I'm glad you'll be checking with your Doc. :)







(I dislike fruit juices, and can't swallow pills without effort) :o
 
RSLancastr said:
And I'll try my best to communicate with him without using my teeth to do so.
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Excellent. I only bit a dentist who slept through anesthesia class--and I warned him--if he hurt me one more time... :D

RSLancastr said:
I was unable to swallow pills until I was in my thirties. Up until then, I had to chew any pills that I took. Even aspirins. :(
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Well, I'm in my 50's--I can swallow them, but folks watching me think I'm having seizures if I don't warn them first. ;)
 
COQ-10 is something your body is supposed to make. Statin drugs interfere with it's endogenous production. So, anybody on statins ought to be taking the COQ10.

I've been taking it for several years now for congenital hereditary myopathy. But a few moths ago I ran out, and bought smaller dose pills.30mg? I also started a new project and got physical enough to work off 30# in 60 days. So I blamed the nightly cramps on the exertion. Until I ran out of the little pills and went to Costco. No cramps that night, or since. Now I take 300mg/day.

Doctors are very pro CO-q10 for heart health. Heart is a muscle that needs endurance. AAAnd, I too am on all the blood pressure meds allowable. Nitro patches sure were a huge benefit.

AAaand, if you scroll through this forum to the thread about the hypertension chart, it advocates COQ10, plus the carnitine that I also take for myopathy. I take ALC, acetyl-L-carnitine, it is supposedly better at getting directly into the muscles.

Try some searches on <cramps coq10> . Wiki cramps mention the electrolytes, and also gets into the muscle metabolism angle. Basically, the muscle runs out of the energy it takes to push the electrolytes through a membrane. You might get lucky and find an electrolyte supplement that helps, depending on whether your problem is calcium, magnesium,potassium,,,,. Or, you can try a supplement for the muscle metabolism, get it the energy it needs to regulate it's existing electrolytes. .
 
Emet said:
Excellent. I only bit a dentist who slept through anesthesia class--and I warned him--if he hurt me one more time... :D
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I've had good luck with dentists so far.


Well, I'm in my 50's--I can swallow them, but folks watching me think I'm having seizures if I don't warn them first. ;)
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I'm 53. If I hadn't mastered swallowing pills before I had the stroke, my hospital stay - during some of which I was taking 17 pills every day - would have been even more difficult than it was.
 
The thing I've really noticed about muscle cramps is that emotional stress can exacerbate them. And, being in pain can cause emotional stress. So, you can end up with a sort of endless loop of "pain = stress = more pain = more stress = more pain".

If you can short circuit the stress part, the pain will often resolve itself. This is where placebo effects really come into play -- we think that whatever substance we're taking is going to help. Because we think it's going to help, we relax and calm down. The mere act of calming down alleviates some or all of the pain we're experiencing, and so we think the substance we've taken helped. And, to a degree it did, just not in the way we think it did.

The mind is a very powerful thing. Don't underestimate it. :)
 
Beerina said:
IANAD but it's conceivable that waking up increased your heart rate enough where, combined with sitting up, enough fresh blood got into the legs to relieve the cramps, at least long enough for the OJ to start working, so when you drifted back off to sleep (thus flat and slowing heart rate) your cramps did not reappear.
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I'd love to hear what fls has to say about this. Sounds very reasonable to me.

@RSL
-You are taking potassium supplements on a daily basis, so chances are the oj connection, if it's not all placebo, has nothing to do with potassium.

-One thing to check in case: People who tuck in their blankets report more cramps in the feet and calves. Simply loosening up the blankets has solved this problem for many (I read this in high school so I could be wrong, but I'll research it if pushed).

-The article mentioned simply standing on the afflicted foot, and also the stretching exercise you mentioned.

ETA: I'm not sure about the oj working part, but blood circulation probably plays a predominant role.

If I were in need of a potassium fix, I would use gatorade. Very fast digestion and high potassium. I'd be afraid of the crazy amount of sodium you get form gatorade, though.
 
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Maurice Ledifficile said:
@RSL
-You are taking potassium supplements on a daily basis, so chances are the oj connection, if it's not all placebo, has nothing to do with potassium.
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Hmmm. Maybe a potassium boost?

-One thing to check in case: People who tuck in their blankets report more cramps in the feet and calves. Simply loosening up the blankets has solved this problem for many (I read this in high school so I could be wrong, but I'll research it if pushed).
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Push.

I don't tuck my blankets in, but some nights I ask Susan to tuck my blanket under my legs to keep them warm (thanks to my weak left leg, I cant't simply reach down and do this myself). I have her do this largely because it keeps my legs from getting cold, which often leads to cramps.

If I were in need of a potassium fix, I would use gatorade. Very fast digestion and high potassium. I'd be afraid of the crazy amount of sodium you get form gatorade, though.
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Yes, I'm trying to cut back on the Sodium, so Gatorade is out.
 
Medical advice on the Internet is worth only you paid for it.
Talk to the doctor.
 
RSLancastr said:
I will, but, in my experience, doctors don't think leg cramps are serious enough to even talk about.
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Well, then find a doctor who does.

Seriously, Robert. I expect my Doc to treat me with respect--which means (for me) to address my concerns.

Perhaps you might consider seeing him specifically for the cramps--keep track of the frequency and timing, and anything else that might be relevant.

Ask him if he thinks any of your meds may be contributing, what treatments or diagnostics might be considered--and that the cramps are having a serious and detrimental effect on the quality of your life.

And of course, be polite, but serious about it.
 
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Emet said:
Well, then find a doctor who does.

Seriously, Robert. I expect my Doc to treat me with respect--which means (for me) to address my concerns.
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While you are, of course, right about this, I do, at present, have more pressing health issues which I feel are more important. Once some of those are at a point where I feel that my leg cramps are important enough to take up some of the limited time I have with my health care professionals, I will do so.

But thanks.
 
RSLancastr said:
While you are, of course, right about this, I do, at present, have more pressing health issues which I feel are more important. Once some of those are at a point where I feel that my leg cramps are important enough to take up some of the limited time I have with my health care professionals, I will do so.
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I know you do. ;)

I suppose my post was just as readily directed at anyone who reads the thread. I've reached a point in my life where I have no patience for MDs who do not treat me with respect, empathy, and concern for my total well being. No matter how trivial it might seem to them.

As always, best wishes.
 
RSLancastr said:
Push.

I don't tuck my blankets in, but some nights I ask Susan to tuck my blanket under my legs to keep them warm
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Hi Robert,
A preliminary search (I do work) has yielded anecdotal confirmation for the loose blanket hypothesis. I stayed away from quack sites, but who knows who's at the other end. Nevertheless, this concept is mentioned everywhere leg cramps are discussed, so while I wait for a visit to the doctor, I would certainly refrain from tucking in. It seems to be more about loose blankets at the foot of the bed, not so much having the leg itself untucked, so that could be good news.

* On more reliable sites like the Mayo Clinic's they mention blood pressure medication as a very common cause, so you're at high risk to start with.

I would make sure I have all the vitamins and minerals I need, KEEP HYDRATED, and loosen my feet.

You could have a chiropractor pray to Jeebus for you inside a pentagram, while drowning a sacrificial chicken in homeopathic water which was blessed by a priest...
:D
Good luck.

Derail: I found out about Stop Sylvia from members' signatures a while ago. Good job. I like how it's mostly facts. Makes it easier to use your site to make a point when dealing with a Brownite.
 
I was taking Simvistatin, and developed pain in the legs.. and then read the MSDS for it.. and pain in the legs is the precursor for muscular disintegration.
I stopped that medication.
 
Maurice Ledifficile said:
Hi Robert,
A preliminary search (I do work) has yielded anecdotal confirmation for the loose blanket hypothesis. I stayed away from quack sites, but who knows who's at the other end. Nevertheless, this concept is mentioned everywhere leg cramps are discussed, so while I wait for a visit to the doctor, I would certainly refrain from tucking in. It seems to be more about loose blankets at the foot of the bed, not so much having the leg itself untucked, so that could be good news.

* On more reliable sites like the Mayo Clinic's they mention blood pressure medication as a very common cause, so you're at high risk to start with.

I would make sure I have all the vitamins and minerals I need, KEEP HYDRATED, and loosen my feet.
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I take a vitamin supplement every day. I drink a fair amount of Crystal Light every day. But I need those legs to stay warm. The slight amount of tucking will continue.

You could have a chiropractor pray to Jeebus for you inside a pentagram, while drowning a sacrificial chicken in homeopathic water which was blessed by a priest...
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Add some OJ and I'm all for it.

Derail: I found out about Stop Sylvia from members' signatures a while ago. Good job. I like how it's mostly facts. Makes it easier to use your site to make a point when dealing with a Brownite.
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Thanks, I hope it helps!
 
Maurice Ledifficile said:
I'd love to hear what fls has to say about this. Sounds very reasonable to me.
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Any activities which improve circulation (both arterial and venous) can reasonably be proposed to have an effect. There isn't anything in orange juice which can be having an acute effect (beyond some eventual rehydration effects which still aren't going to be immediate).

Linda
 
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