Orange Juice Placebo?

So, the "maybe it's just the sitting up to drink that does the trick" theory didn't seem to pan out this time.

Had the cramp not been so vicious, I would have asked her to bring something else (perhaps water or milk) to test the "maybe it's just the fluid intake" theory. As it was, I considered it for a bit before thinking "screw science - this HURTS!!" and called for some OJ
 
That's completely awesome thanks for the update! Have you thought of a silent minifridge in reach of your bed? It would be the tabernacle for the magic elixir! Or really a minicooler and ice pack you leave in the freezer at night would work.

It's tempting not to mess with success, but if there is room for improvement I wonder what other juices or juice blends would be as good or much better? Mango banana orange maybe, I like that stuff, taste and effect, more than just orange juice.

Great stuff Robert I've been telling a few people with similar issues about this I'll report back with any long-term success stories!
 
RSLancastr said:
Speaking of cramps, here's a mutha I still get on occasion:

It happens sometimes when I yawn. a muscle in the front right side of my neck cramps up like a rock. Stretching - by pointing my chin towards the ceiling - usually relieves it, but not always. Dunno if I've ever tried the OJ cure with it...
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I get that on the whole front of the neck.
 
RSLancastr said:
Had another leg cramp last night. I'd decided after starting this thread that I would do my best to not ask Susan to get me a bottle of OJ, but to just do stretches/massages and/or "tough it out" rather than add to her already-considerable burden of taking care of me (and to spare me more of her mocking my "Magic elixer". But last night the cramp set in hard and fast, and no sitting up, massaging/stretching was having an effect on it. So I asked her for a bottle, and she graciously brought me one without comment. I drank it down, and - voila!! cramp gone.
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That's a nice example of why we thought leeches worked for hundreds of years and why people swear by homeopathy now - it turns out that we are bad at guessing how long it will take to get better. In the absence of the orange juice, you might discover that a bad cramp takes three minutes (or whatever) to resolve, but we don't want to wait that long so we have rituals whose real benefit is to distract us. The problem is that we attribute the benefit to the ritual, rather than to simply allowing adequate time to pass. It wasn't until we started performing randomized, placebo controlled trials that we discovered just what a poor job we had been doing at guessing we weren't going to get better unless we "did something". I suspect your story is compelling (and why you are comfortable damning science) because you are confident in your guess that it wasn't going to stop. It is hard to shake that confidence, even though we now know that it plays us false.

Linda
 
Modified said:
I get that on the whole front of the neck.
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Yeow!! I don't recall that ever happening to me, thank FSM. The right-side one used to happen, distressingly, while I was driving. Not sure why, maybe poor posture. But, when it did, stretching it by pointing my chin skyward was problematic, due to my height and the low ceiling of my car. Luckily, my motorized wheelchair has no roof, low or otherwise! Nowadays, it happens mostly while I'm in bed.
 
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fls said:
That's a nice example of why we thought leeches worked for hundreds of years and why people swear by homeopathy now - it turns out that we are bad at guessing how long it will take to get better. In the absence of the orange juice, you might discover that a bad cramp takes three minutes (or whatever) to resolve, but we don't want to wait that long so we have rituals whose real benefit is to distract us. The problem is that we attribute the benefit to the ritual, rather than to simply allowing adequate time to pass. It wasn't until we started performing randomized, placebo controlled trials that we discovered just what a poor job we had been doing at guessing we weren't going to get better unless we "did something". I suspect your story is compelling (and why you are comfortable damning science) because you are confident in your guess that it wasn't going to stop. It is hard to shake that confidence, even though we now know that it plays us false.

Linda
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I am more than willing to acknowledge that the OJ's seeming to help may be a placebo, but hadn't really considered the "it would have stopped anyway" possibility, thanks. I know that, early on after my stumbling upon the "magic cure", I tried just "waiting it out" to no avail, and the OJ seemed to do the trick whether it was brought immediately or after a several minute wait, which, to me, points more to placebo/psychosomatic (sp?) effect, not an "it would have stopped then regardless" thing.

Also, without the OJ, the lingering aftereffects of the cramp would last a day or more. With the OJ, there are none.

Also, I did not "damn" science. I just chose, in that one instance, to go ahead and do what, in my experience, would stop the pain rather than suffer that pain longer in the interest of trying a little experiment.
 
Joey McGee said:
That's completely awesome thanks for the update! Have you thought of a silent minifridge in reach of your bed? It would be the tabernacle for the magic elixir! Or really a minicooler and ice pack you leave in the freezer at night would work.
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I have indeed thought of a bedside minifridge, but finances have never made it workable. Besides, I'd probably end up stocking other tasty treats medicinal supplies which would end up packing on the pounds.

Speaking of which:

Due to my weight, I used to have big-time back problems. At times it was so bad I couldn't even stand up. During one such time, my doctor had recommended ice packs. We didn't have any, so my then-wife Cindy improvised and brought a box of frozen Otter Pops from our freezer to my bed.

She would unroll a connected group of them onto the bed, and I would lay/lie down on them. After an hour or two, she would replace the by-then melted set with a fresh, frozen set.

About the third time she did this she said "Hey! How come the grape ones are always gone?"

I told her that I had absolutely no idea.

So then, a mini fridge/freezer stocked with OJ and grape Otter Pops?

It's tempting not to mess with success, but if there is room for improvement I wonder what other juices or juice blends would be as good or much better? Mango banana orange maybe, I like that stuff, taste and effect, more than just orange juice.
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I know I've tried other Orange/something blends, but don't recall the result.

Great stuff Robert I've been telling a few people with similar issues about this I'll report back with any long-term success stories!
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Please do!
 
It happened again last night, though the muscle never fully cramped. It was aching in that "I'm going to cramp any moment now" kind of way. I was STILL too much of a wuss to try drinking some other fluid. Susan brought me some OJ, I downed it, and the leg stopped threatening to cramp.
 
RSLancastr said:
Yeow!! I don't recall that ever happening to me, thank FSM. The right-side one used to happen, distressingly, while I was driving. Not sure why, maybe poor posture. But, when it did, stretching it by pointing my chin skyward was problematic, due to my height and the low ceiling of my car. Luckily, my motorized wheelchair has no roof, low or otherwise! Nowadays, it happens mostly while I'm in bed.
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Mine always resolves, but sometimes it takes over a minute of stretching, and I have to be careful not to strain the neck muscles afterward or it will cramp up again. My biceps often cramp up as well, to the point where I'll have to use the non-cramped arm to assist in straightening out the cramped one. That's been happening ever since I carried about 4 tons of furniture, tools, weights, and other belongings into a moving truck in one day. My biceps were cramping for the last few hours but I just uncramped them and kept going. I had no idea that type of abuse could have such a long-term effect. Seven years later they are still problematic, but the frequency has diminished.
 
I would get small bumps on the front of my knees. They'd come and go.
After getting on an orange juice for breakfast every day, they went away.. not that I paid much attention.. until I switched to apple juice, and they came back. That got my attention.
Back to the OJ, and none since.
 
Modified said:
Mine always resolves, but sometimes it takes over a minute of stretching, and I have to be careful not to strain the neck muscles afterward or it will cramp up again.
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Yes, a subsequent yawn will often set mine in again.

My biceps often cramp up as well, to the point where I'll have to use the non-cramped arm to assist in straightening out the cramped one. That's been happening ever since I carried about 4 tons of furniture, tools, weights, and other belongings into a moving truck in one day.
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Next time, carry it in smaller loads, and load it into a truck which is not moving.

You're welcome.

My biceps were cramping for the last few hours but I just uncramped them and kept going. I had no idea that type of abuse could have such a long-term effect. Seven years later they are still problematic, but the frequency has diminished.
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Lesson learned, I take it?
 
I Ratant said:
I would get small bumps on the front of my knees. They'd come and go.
After getting on an orange juice for breakfast every day, they went away.. not that I paid much attention.. until I switched to apple juice, and they came back. That got my attention.
Back to the OJ, and none since.
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How odd! Have you seen a doctor about this?
 
No, I didn't but ISTR seeing something about this way back when on the early 'net.
Memory fails more every day...:(
 
Everydam night?

Lancaster, get ye to Costco for a bottle of COQ-10, 100mg. Take a couple at bedtime or after dinner. The heck with treatment, try a bottle of prevention.

If it works, take more, because you need more. See if your stamina increases.
 
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IANAD but it's conceivable that waking up increased your heart rate enough where, combined with sitting up, enough fresh blood got into the legs to relieve the cramps, at least long enough for the OJ to start working, so when you drifted back off to sleep (thus flat and slowing heart rate) your cramps did not reappear.
 
casebro said:
Everydam night?
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At one time, yes. Now, possibly thanks to my better diet, maybe twice per week.

Lancaster, get ye to Costco for a bottle of COQ-10, 100mg. Take a couple at bedtime or after dinner. The heck with treatment, try a bottle of prevention.
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I currently take more than a dozen medications every day - three for blood pressure alone. So, although I appreciate the recommendation, I'm not about to add anything to that mix without clearing it with my doc first.
 
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