Opinions on virus risk, please

[GreNME]

I think losing the desktop wallpaper is "reduced functionality", even if not a seriously inconvenient one.

Obviously my use of the term "cripple" was a gross overstatement and I take it back, I should have used a different word. I didn't spend much time on the post, I was just chatting and thought what I'd read might be interesting.

It's an alert not unlike your automobile telling you that you need maintenance or a fridge that beeps when the door is left ajar. It's something that not only can be remedied easily, but has more than one mechanism in place provided by Microsoft to remedy it. I've had to reset a WGA alert on computers I was managing at a previous company before, and it was literally a two-minute phone call.

Also, keep in mind that the update in question is 1) completely optional and 2) not primarily a WGA tool but an exploit-blocking tool similar to antivirus. No one is sneaking this in on regular Windows users, since auto updates won't download and install this update. More than just the "phone home" or the "crippling" thing are demonstrably false, which is why I've criticized it like I have. The reality is totally different from the rumor, both in terms of purpose as well as operation.

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You're forgetting that it costs the person time. Microsoft is using our resources to protect their business model. I won't install something like that until they're willing to pay for my computer time, and my personal time if I get a false positive.

And how much does two minutes of your personal time cost, pray tell?

Seriously, making a decision based on an exception rather than the rule is illogical, to say the least. However, whether you install this update or not you already have WGA installed on your Windows 7 system whether you want it there or not. If you've had no problems already, nor with the WGA implementation that's been an integral part of Windows Update for the past 3-plus years, then there is no logical reason why the situation would change with the update in question that makes use of WGA when it updates exploit definitions. However, since the update is optional there's also no overwhelming argument from me as to why you should download and install it either-- that's completely up to you. All I'm doing is pointing out that what it does is no different than what's already built into Windows as far as anti-piracy measures go, and that the update itself isn't meant to change the odds of your experiencing a false positive in any way (and is instead meant to do something completely different).

 

[Dancing David]

You're forgetting that it costs the person time. Microsoft is using our resources to protect their business model. I won't install something like that until they're willing to pay for my computer time, and my personal time if I get a false positive.

It is just a nuisance for a licensed owner, takes a very short time to fix.

 

[Ducky]

Well, that was what I was thinking, but thought I'd ask those who know more about computers than I do.

My newer computers with Windows 7 don't connect to the internet, my internet computer is completely separate.

You do realize linux has it's own set of security issues and is not bulletproof, yes? Before I get accused of being a microsoft fanboy, I will point out I am a professional unix engineer. Unix/unix-like OS' are more secure against windows-targeted viruses, but have vulnerabilities that can be exploited if left open.

I'm not sure I understand not letting your windows computers connect to the internet. It is reasonably easy to secure any OS to enough of a standard to protect against attacks.

Unless you prefer surfing dodgy sites with scripted attacks in them.

 

[Lolly]

You do realize linux has it's own set of security issues and is not bulletproof, yes?

Sure. I get security notifications for both.

I'm not sure I understand not letting your windows computers connect to the internet.

I find the constant "noise" extremely aggravating. All of the programs seem set up to contact the internet on their own and every time you install something you have to go through the settings to find out how to stop the automatic downloading and things pestering you to register or something (and it's usually not in the one place). I want to put the things on my computer that I want to put on my computer and I don't want a whole heap of stuff automatically downloaded. It annoys me.

Plus, I'd come to the end of my anti-virus subscription and had started using linux by then so just decided to stick with linux and not bother getting another subscription. The internet security program annoyed me. It was always downloading signatures and slowing down your connection to the stuff you wanted to look at while it did it. It was always announcing something going on in the computer that could be a "threat" (basically anything that accessed the registry), asking whether to allow it and half the time you weren't equipped to know whether to allow it or not so asking you seemed a bit pointless. Then you'd have to look up what the warning meant.....

It is reasonably easy to secure any OS to enough of a standard to protect against attacks.

You're probably right about that. I just couldn't be bothered doing it any more, having to go through switching things off, finding out what things do and what they mean and whether you should let them run, blah blah blah. I suppose you could just hand it over to Microsoft and your anti-virus programs and leave it to them, but I like to know (insofar as I'm able to) what's going on and am not comfortable giving control to third parties.

As for securing against attacks, I've never had a computer virus, even in Windows 98 which I was using long after it was new (I only upgraded to a new computer with XP after I installed McAfee and then couldn't get it off the computer, THAT was annoying). I've never even had a virus alert/quarantine thing in the anti-virus program. As far as I know, I've never come across a virus on the internet. My browsing habits aren't high-risk, I only go to official sites, never open attachments on emails unless I know what they are, etc. etc. I'm pretty (you probably think, overly) cautious.

Unless you prefer surfing dodgy sites with scripted attacks in them.

I don't think so. If something seems like it might be a bit "iffy" I look it up on McAfee's site first (not that that's foolproof either).

If something does get onto this computer it's of absolutely no consequence to me if the computer goes mental. I like not having to worry about losing any data or caring if I'd have to reinstall. If I somehow got turned into a bot (and I don't really understand how that happens) I'd expect there to be signs in the router or in my internet quota or something, but I don't think you can be made a bot if you've got a router. (?)

Anyway, you probably still don't understand why. You can just think I'm weird, if you like

 

[ThatSoundAgain]

I find the constant "noise" extremely aggravating. All of the programs seem set up to contact the internet on their own and every time you install something you have to go through the settings to find out how to stop the automatic downloading and things pestering you to register or something (and it's usually not in the one place). I want to put the things on my computer that I want to put on my computer and I don't want a whole heap of stuff automatically downloaded. It annoys me.

I use two things when I'm on XP once in a while - Avast and Online Armor. The latter will let you block programs from accessing the internet on a per-program / process basis. It'll even pop up and ask you the first time a program attempts to do so, and optionally remember your filter.

I too get annoyed at the noise, but since I only use XP to run the odd game, I put up with it. Especially the speech bubbles are vile.

One other thing, I've seen a fresh install of XP being infected with nasty things within minutes when I made the mistake of connecting it to a large LAN at a university while installing. I didn't even have time to get AV software installed. XP really is old in software terms, and there are various nasties that can get your machine before you have a chance to patch if you use a stock CD. Still, probably not a problem on your home network.

 

[Lolly]

Avast and Online Armor.

Thanks. Avast was mentioned before, the other one I've never heard of.

and there are various nasties that can get your machine before you have a chance to patch if you use a stock CD.

I've read about this but I've never come across anything. I read once that the incidence isn't that high here. (From memory, I could be wrong) It's worse in the US and really bad in China.

 

[Ducky]

Sure. I get security notifications for both.

I find the constant "noise" extremely aggravating. All of the programs seem set up to contact the internet on their own and every time you install something you have to go through the settings to find out how to stop the automatic downloading and things pestering you to register or something (and it's usually not in the one place). I want to put the things on my computer that I want to put on my computer and I don't want a whole heap of stuff automatically downloaded. It annoys me.

Plus, I'd come to the end of my anti-virus subscription and had started using linux by then so just decided to stick with linux and not bother getting another subscription. The internet security program annoyed me. It was always downloading signatures and slowing down your connection to the stuff you wanted to look at while it did it. It was always announcing something going on in the computer that could be a "threat" (basically anything that accessed the registry), asking whether to allow it and half the time you weren't equipped to know whether to allow it or not so asking you seemed a bit pointless. Then you'd have to look up what the warning meant.....
You're probably right about that. I just couldn't be bothered doing it any more, having to go through switching things off, finding out what things do and what they mean and whether you should let them run, blah blah blah. I suppose you could just hand it over to Microsoft and your anti-virus programs and leave it to them, but I like to know (insofar as I'm able to) what's going on and am not comfortable giving control to third parties.

As for securing against attacks, I've never had a computer virus, even in Windows 98 which I was using long after it was new (I only upgraded to a new computer with XP after I installed McAfee and then couldn't get it off the computer, THAT was annoying). I've never even had a virus alert/quarantine thing in the anti-virus program. As far as I know, I've never come across a virus on the internet. My browsing habits aren't high-risk, I only go to official sites, never open attachments on emails unless I know what they are, etc. etc. I'm pretty (you probably think, overly) cautious.

I don't think so. If something seems like it might be a bit "iffy" I look it up on McAfee's site first (not that that's foolproof either).

If something does get onto this computer it's of absolutely no consequence to me if the computer goes mental. I like not having to worry about losing any data or caring if I'd have to reinstall. If I somehow got turned into a bot (and I don't really understand how that happens) I'd expect there to be signs in the router or in my internet quota or something, but I don't think you can be made a bot if you've got a router. (?)

Anyway, you probably still don't understand why. You can just think I'm weird, if you like

I'm not trying to be insulting, but this sounds like a bit of OCD gone wild.

 

[ThatSoundAgain]

Thanks. Avast was mentioned before, the other one I've never heard of.

I had that recommended by someone in the know over Comodo firewall. Both are free, and I think ZoneAlarm has a free version also.

Just a tip that you're not alone in finding the noise annoying, these programs are specifically designed to deal with it (among other, mostly security concerns).

I've read about this but I've never come across anything. I read once that the incidence isn't that high here. (From memory, I could be wrong) It's worse in the US and really bad in China.

Yeah, I think the several hundred student machines on the LAN were the problem. The machine probably got infected after announcing its presence on Smb (the machines you'll see under "workgroups" etc). Most home internet connections should be very much safer, and you know what's on the LAN.

 

[Lolly]

I'm not trying to be insulting, but this sounds like a bit of OCD gone wild.

Not OCD, just paranoia.

Basically it boils down to what I want to spend my time doing. I don't want to spend my time waiting for the anti-virus to update or clicking permissions for it to do something, or closing screens that have just arrived because of a program looking to update itself. I just want to read my forums and have the computer leave me alone. My linux program doesn't bother me the way windows does. It just sits there quietly and lets me do what I want. I like it. Of course, everyone's different, so whatever floats your boat as far as I am concerned.

Just a tip that you're not alone in finding the noise annoying,

Thanks

 

[Ducky]

Not OCD, just paranoia.

Basically it boils down to what I want to spend my time doing. I don't want to spend my time waiting for the anti-virus to update or clicking permissions for it to do something, or closing screens that have just arrived because of a program looking to update itself. I just want to read my forums and have the computer leave me alone. My linux program doesn't bother me the way windows does. It just sits there quietly and lets me do what I want. I like it. Of course, everyone's different, so whatever floats your boat as far as I am concerned.


Thanks

I had to post this, because I just found it and it made me lol.

 

[Lolly]

Who's he?

 

[Ducky]

Who's he?

Seriously?

That's Bruce Schneier. He literally wrote the book on cryptography and is a pretty well renowned expert on security.

His blog is linked in the links section of this subforum. You should read it.

 

[Lolly]

Thanks. I've read that blog before, but I didn't recognize him and I wouldn't have remembered his name even if I had done.

 

[Dancing David]

Seriously?

That's Bruce Schneier. He literally wrote the book on cryptography and is a pretty well renowned expert on security.

His blog is linked in the links section of this subforum. You should read it.

The Holy Blog, that fixes the .NET framework errors.

Oh Holy Holy Holy!

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

You can always... you know.... get a Mac.

 

[Ducky]

You can always... you know.... get a Mac.

Sigh not another mac vs. pc bait...

 

[Wudang]

It's always September on the net.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Sigh not another mac vs. pc bait...

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=299&pictureid=2374[/qimg]

Relax, kiddo. I'm not going down that road

But that's a cute lolcat pic

 

[Ducky]

Relax, kiddo. I'm not going down that road

But that's a cute lolcat pic

Any excuse to get a pic on the forums

 

[Bobert]

I always look for the ads that read, "DF you be to".























Ooops sorry thought this thread was about perusing Craigslist personal ads.