Operatings Systems: reminiscences

[Blue Bubble]

But then again, don't get me started on DecNet.

I once had a very nice booklet of about 20 pages from DEC explaining why DecNet was superior to Token Ring. I'm not entirely sure I was convinced.

When I joined HSBC in '99 the floor of at least 30 staff had one DecNet terminal for some hell-spawned email thing that made elm look sophisticated.

I'm just about to go to bed, but couldn't help but add a quick rejoinder to both of you. You both do not understand what DECnet is. DECnet is a network protocol, akin to TCP/IP, not dependent on physical network infrastructure such as Token Ring or Ethernet or two coconuts-tied-together-with-string.


I am a DECnet expert, and love it for what it is - a very clean and well-documented network protocol upon which a lot has been implemented and developed. Of course, it is somewhat dated today, but then again so is TCP/IP v4 (and some might say v6 too).


So there

 

[jadebox]

All this spurred an odd memory ... In one of our computer rooms filled with VT-100 terminals, there was a spray can with a DEC logo on it. The only text on the can was a warning: "Eye Irritant."

We kept the can of "Digital Eye Irritant" around for years, just in case.

 

[Blue Bubble]

But then again, don't get me started on DecNet.

I once had a very nice booklet of about 20 pages from DEC explaining why DecNet was superior to Token Ring. I'm not entirely sure I was convinced.

Ah, now beginning to understand the source of your confusion. You're confusing DECnet with Ethernet. Ethernet^WP was, of course, in competition with Token Ring, FDDI et al. DEC was a founder member of the consortium to establish Ethernet standards:

The first standard was published on September 30, 1980 as "The Ethernet, A Local Area Network. Data Link Layer and Physical Layer Specifications".

I'll leave you to guess which network technology won (hint: it wasn't Token Ring).

 

[Wudang]

Oh I respect DEC having learned to program on a pair of Vaxen (running BSD sorry). I have no clear memories of this thing. The user guide had something about Decnet on the front and the email system was as clunky as a bucket of bricks. I used it once when I was given an id, found nothing on it as nobody used it. Lotus Notes was a massive improvement as dealing with the new support staff was hilarious.

 

[Little 10 Toes]

I remember purchasing OS/2 warp from a discount store and installing like 50 3.5 floppies because a friend talked me into it. I purchased Slackware 1.0 from Tower Books and may still have the installation CD. I had a chance to buy Windows 1.0 for nostalgic purposes, but didn't because I already was at 3.0 (purchased as a bundle to a wireless mouse.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Ah, now beginning to understand the source of your confusion. You're confusing DECnet with Ethernet. Ethernet^WP was, of course, in competition with Token Ring, FDDI et al. DEC was a founder member of the consortium to establish Ethernet standards:





I'll leave you to guess which network technology won (hint: it wasn't Token Ring).

Yes. You are of course correct. But then, I voted for the OSI Model.

 

[Blue Bubble]

Yes. You are of course correct. But then, I voted for the OSI Model.

Congratulations, you voted for DECnet^WP

... thus transforming DEC into a networking powerhouse in the 1980s. Initially built with three layers, it later (1982) evolved into a seven-layer OSI-compliant networking protocol.


Move from a proprietary network to an Open Systems Interconnection (OSI) by integration of ISO standards to provide multi-vendor connectivity and compatibility with DNA Phase IV, the last two features resulted in a hybrid network architecture (DNA and OSI) with separate “towers” sharing an integrated transport layer. Transparent transport level links to TCP/IP were added via the IETF RFC 1006 (OSI over IP) and RFC 1859 (NSP over IP) standards.
It was later renamed DECnet/OSI to emphasize its OSI interconnectibility, and subsequently DECnet-Plus as TCP/IP protocols were incorporated.

 

[Blue Bubble]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and claim to be the only one here to have used Sintran III^WP (1982-1984ish), the operating system for Norsk Data^WP computers. Norsk Data systems were quite popular once-upon-a-time at CERN and EMBL (European Molecular Biology Laboratory), where I worked. These systems had a core (pun intended) of quite ardent supporters, who were quite vociferous in opposing their replacement by a VAX 11/780 in 1982. Re core: these were the last machines I ever worked on with real core memory, and I recall it was a pain to troubleshoot memory errors to locate which 4 Kbyte board was the defective one.

Sintran III was a real-time, multitasking, multi-user operating system used with Norsk Data computers from 1974. Unlike its predecessors Sintran I and II, it was entirely written by Norsk Data. Sintran III was written in NORD PL, intermediate language for Norsk Data computers.

I'm also a bit disappointed that nobody seems to have mentioned any of the CDC (Control Data Corporation) or Cray operating environments, though I was a mere vanilla user of those (Fortran edit-compile-link-run, lather, rinse, repeat ...).


Which brings me to ... operating systems would often be rated in direct correlation to the OS-supplied file editor(s). I have really fond memories of the ZED editor on the University of Cambridge Phoenix (computer)^WP system (mid 1970s). See Philip Hazel's "From Punched Cards to Flat Screens - A Technical Autobiography" for an interesting read (Philip Hazel was the original author and developer of Exim^WP, Exim mail transfer agent

In August 2019 a study performed by E-Soft, Inc., approximated that 57% of the publicly reachable mail-servers on the Internet ran Exim.

But, of course, the editor I loved the most was EDT (Digital)^WP. I never ever came to even begin to like Emacs^WP ...


Hint: let the editor wars begin

 

[Major Major]

Looks like CICS is enough to kill any thread.

There was a period when I was looking for a job and it seemed everyone wanted programmers with at least two years experience programming CICS. The only way to learn it was . . . working someplace that ran CICS.

I listed with a job service that seemed promising. Then, when I was supposed to come in for my initial interview with them, to lay out what I could do and what they could do for me, the interviewer called and said we had to cancel because everyone was doing a superbig rush job. Then, she had a two-week vacation. And she was so enthusiastic about me that she didn’t want me to see anyone’s else there.

Two weeks later I came in and told her that they were only interested in shuffling around CICS programmers, and I wasn’t interested in working with them.

She seemed disappointed.

 

[Blue Mountain]

Hint: let the editor wars begin

Editor wars are so stupid, once one realizes vim is the best.

 

[Blue Mountain]

Yes. You are of course correct. But then, I voted for the OSI Model.

The main problem with the OSI model is layer 8.

 

[zooterkin]

Editor wars are so stupid, once one realizes vim is the best.

I think you’ll find it’s spelt ‘vi’.

I first learnt either ed or ex, I forget which, and then vi, and my fingers still know the vi commands. I did use Xemacs for quite a while, but with a plug-in (I forget the correct term) that used the vi keys instead.

 

[Trebuchet]

I used a VAX one of some sort, but forget what it was called.

 

[arthwollipot]

I tried to learn vi once. It made absolutely zero sense. But I'm not a coder. Perhaps it makes sense in the context of coding.

 

[Blue Mountain]

I tried to learn vi once. It made absolutely zero sense. But I'm not a coder. Perhaps it makes sense in the context of coding.

You're right on both counts!

For example, in command mode 'd' + another key deletes something: 'w' deletes a word (stopping at punctuation), 'W' deletes a word (stopping only at whitespace), 'd' the current line, '}' from the cursor to the end of the paragraph or code block, and a few others I don't know about. Prefix it with one or more digits for a count: '3dw' deletes three words delimited by punctuation, '3dW' deletes three words delimited by whitespace, '3dd' deletes three full lines. So you can do some pretty cool tricks in vi or vim, but at the expense of a significant learning curve and nasty surprises if you hit the wrong keys.

 

[arthwollipot]

You're right on both counts!

For example, in command mode 'd' + another key deletes something: 'w' deletes a word (stopping at punctuation), 'W' deletes a word (stopping only at whitespace), 'd' the current line, '}' from the cursor to the end of the paragraph or code block, and a few others I don't know about. Prefix it with one or more digits for a count: '3dw' deletes three words delimited by punctuation, '3dW' deletes three words delimited by whitespace, '3dd' deletes three full lines. So you can do some pretty cool tricks in vi or vim, but at the expense of a significant learning curve and nasty surprises if you hit the wrong keys.

I think I'd rather teach myself how to play Dwarf Fortress.

 

[Wudang]

Depends what you’re doing. I spend most of my working day in IntelliJ. I pay for it as it’s so powerful with the best code completion I’ve seen. But I write my shell scripts on the linuxes with vim (used off and on since 1983 and still only use a few commands) or various files on windows with notepad++.
For some things I still IBMs ISPF editor for line oriented editing. Notepad++ has some neat stuff there but I had a load of nifty macros for the above and I prefer a keyboard to a mouse.
My nephew’s favourite editor is CRISPR.

 

[Blue Bubble]

My nephew’s favourite editor is CRISPR.

Yes, I understood that

 

[lauwersw]

I tried to learn vi once. It made absolutely zero sense. But I'm not a coder. Perhaps it makes sense in the context of coding.

You'll find it used more often in sysadmin circles these days. Coders want advanced GUI stuff with mouse controlled auto complete and syntax checks etc.

Vim is tiny (2.3MB on my system), comes pre-installed on most servers, does not require a GUI and is still very powerful. That's the reason almost every sysadmin I know knows how to use at least the basic functions. They might like and use other editors too, but they all know vi!

If you know how to use arcane syntax like for bash, sed, awk etc. it's not even that difficult to learn

 

[The Don]

Novell Netware I have heard of. My brother was an admin. Novell was crushed by Microsoft. It must have been a bad experience because he has only done PC admin since then.

Unhappy memories of being sysadmin for a Novell Netware network installed in temporary secure offices where the network cables were on the floor in an ideal place to be kicked by users and in a building which was mostly glass, absolutely sealed and had no aircon. In the summer, the temperature regularly got over 40C in the offices which meant the PCs overheated and crashed (as did the employees because we had to wear wool suits, long-sleeved shirts and ties

I'm reminded of Netware these days when I'm on a Skype call with colleagues from maybe 6 different time zones. Instead of having to work out whether to wish people a good morning, afternoon or evening I revert to the Netware syntax of:

"Good greeting_time username"