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Openly Critical of Israeli Actions --- war crimes?

webfusion

Philosopher
webfusion
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Messages
9,757
We have seen several times, where JREF's "Israel cheerleaders" are scolded because they (we/I) don't voice criticism openly here, and are biased, and refuse to recognize the terrible injustices that the Israelis commit.


In the main, I refrain from Israel-bashing (there is a fine line between being critical fairly and posting stuff that makes Israel look bad out of context or using clearly anti-Israel sources). There are enough forums out there which make Israel-bashing a sport/hobby, and this one, to my great relief, offers a more balanced and fair appraisal of the situation overall.

Anyway, that said....

Today, the Israeli Supreme Court has decided to start a hearing on whether to open a criminal investigation into allegations that the Israel Defense Forces committed war crimes during two operations in the Gaza Strip in 2004.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/848516.htm

The petition is extraordinary in scope, naming top-echelon IDF officers of direct complicity in the killings of dozens of Palestinians - 44 of them children.

This case is high-profile, and I am posting it here to go on record that I'm ashamed to see an accusation of war crimes against the IDF, and I trust that the people named are investigated to the fullest extent of the law.
 
webfusion said:
We have seen several times, where JREF's "Israel cheerleaders" are scolded because they (we/I) don't voice criticism openly here, and are biased, and refuse to recognize the terrible injustices that the Israelis commit.


In the main, I refrain from Israel-bashing (there is a fine line between being critical fairly and posting stuff that makes Israel look bad out of context or using clearly anti-Israel sources). There are enough forums out there which make Israel-bashing a sport/hobby, and this one, to my great relief, offers a more balanced and fair appraisal of the situation overall.

Anyway, that said....

Today, the Israeli Supreme Court has decided to start a hearing on whether to open a criminal investigation into allegations that the Israel Defense Forces committed war crimes during two operations in the Gaza Strip in 2004.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/848516.htm

The petition is extraordinary in scope, naming top-echelon IDF officers of direct complicity in the killings of dozens of Palestinians - 44 of them children.

This case is high-profile, and I am posting it here to go on record that I'm ashamed to see an accusation of war crimes against the IDF, and I trust that the people named are investigated to the fullest extent of the law.
Click to expand...

Not sure what has caused your sudden feelings of shame, you have already expressed absolute support in the past for the actions that this petition cover. The mass clearing of houses is on your list of things you support. The deaths of civilians is also on the list of things you accept, the terrorists hide among them don't they?

On top of that you seem to imply that this business is somehow being initiated by Israel....It is simply reacting to a Petition by Adalah, the legal center for Arab minority rights in Israel. But for the petition of this Arab Group nothing....nothing....would have happened.

They petitioned the court to order a criminal investigation concerning the deaths of Palestinians. The Court will consider this partition and may or may not order any form of investigation...any form of investigation...if it even happens... may or may not be seriously persued.

Lets see how this pans out before it is represented as any form of change of behavior by either the Israeli administration, courts or its unquestioning supporters here and elswhere on the WWW.

So my prediction for the million bucks is that the high court will decline to order an independent (of the IDF) investigation after asking the IDF if they are war criminals and accepting thier answer.
 
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Well, the simple answer here is that who the fool actually is will be revealed when the court hands down its decision.

I have $10 on a reserved decision at this stage.
 
We can get some sense of the deep anti-Israel tone of the accusations by making note of the following (from the article, inter-alia):

"The petition also included journalistic accounts by Haaretz correspondents Gideon Levi and Amira Hass.
Human Rights Watch (HRW) also contributed to the petition."

(Thanks Kopji for adding the missing "L" to the html link)
 
a_unique_person said:
He sounds like he's right on the money, there. What's wrong with Gideon?
Click to expand...

I'll give you a nickel for it.


"The settlers establish another illegal outpost in Hebron, and most Israelis are not interested in the most criminal settlement of them all."

Illegal Outpost? That's not journalism -- that's nonsense. The house in question was bought and paid for, with a clear bill of sale, and title deed in hand, these jews had every legal right to move in. A case was brought into civil court, disputing this ownership transaction, and that is pending. Most Israelis are not interested in the situation? Well, it so happens that our government is already doing something about the Hebron house (it is one house, not an "outpost") so what further actions would you expect us to take, Mr Levy?
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3386531,00.html

(Attorney General Mazuz called it "illegal" because some permits for occupancy were not properly obtained, apparently. If they had been, or are obtained retroactively, then it no longer will be illegal! But that, again, is a matter for the authorities and the courts, not the Israeli public.)


Also this bit of double-talk:
"52 percent of Israelis who have heard of the Saudi initiative say it could constitute a basis for negotiation."

That means, of course, that 52% of Israelis think it is garbage. (using a margin for error in a typical poll of + - 4%)

Etc etc etc..... Levy and Haas are not "Fourth Estate" they are a Fifth Column.

This thread is not about Haas and Levy, however. It is about whether or not "war crimes" have been commmitted, and if the claims have substance or not.
 
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