Open with the same message I did in RD room.

I nominate triadboy as debate opponent for krkey. He seems to have a lot of relevant facts at his fingertips.
 
hgc said:
I nominate triadboy as debate opponent for krkey. He seems to have a lot of relevant facts at his fingertips.
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The problem is, krkey has stated he will choose his opponent. I have a feeling, Triadboy will not get chosen.

However, I look forward to Triadboy's participation, solicited or not.
 
If a debate format is decided upon, would you separate the NDE topic from the resurection topic?
 
Diogenes said:
That said, I apologize to krkey and all, for my bad manners...
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I don't think WEBLOS are supposed to act that way, are they, little mister? :)
 
And what, again, is the premises that will be debated? Is it "Resolved: That it is historically true that Yeshua the Nazarene bodily rose from the dead?"

Kind of tough to debate, without reliable first-person accounts, we'll never agree to historicity. Debating historicity of the resurrection will never be resolvable. Things too easily degrade into the McDowellian arguments at 5,000 feet: "No one would die for a lie" or "success of Xianity means the truth of the resurrection" - all of which is really weak and probative of nothing.

It is probably easier to debate "Resolved: That the gospels present a consistent story of bodily resurrection that does not conflict with Paulian epistles." With that, we at least get a two-fold debate: (1) Are the gospels consistent on the fact of resurrection, featuring the later interpolation of Mark, the gospel of secret Mark, and gnosticism on resurrection and (2) Did Paul preach a spiritual versus bodily resurrection.

This is at least subject to logical debate structure.
 
Diogenes said:


The problem is, krkey has stated he will choose his opponent. I have a feeling, Triadboy will not get chosen.

However, I look forward to Triadboy's participation, solicited or not.
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My nipples are bursting with pleasure that you and hgc have so much confidence in me, but I look forward to Yahwehs responses too.

I agree with Gregor. Debating the historicity of the resurrection is like debating how many elves work with Santa. However, the accuracy of the Gospels is appalling and the physical knowledge Paul had of Jesus is non-existant - I don't think krkey would like that debate.
 
Hey, Diogenes, I didn't mean to pick on *you* either. You ain't the worst, believe me. ;)
 
Gregor said:
It is probably easier to debate "Resolved: That the gospels present a consistent story of bodily resurrection that does not conflict with Paulian epistles." With that, we at least get a two-fold debate: (1) Are the gospels consistent on the fact of resurrection, featuring the later interpolation of Mark, the gospel of secret Mark, and gnosticism on resurrection and (2) Did Paul preach a spiritual versus bodily resurrection.
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The key word is "story". I still say that proving consistency (or whatever can be proven at this point) still does not prove the resurrection as a fact. There's nothing testable and repeatable there.
 
triadboy said:


However, the accuracy of the Gospels is appalling and the physical knowledge Paul had of Jesus is non-existant - I don't think krkey would like that debate.
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I found this Item by Hyam Maccoby quite interesting..

Paul's Bungling Attempt At Sounding Pharisaic

I bring this up because krkey provided us with a link to the home of our favorite apologetic... " James Patrick Holding ', over at Tektonics.org...

Holding reviewed a book by Maccoby titled " The Mythmaker "..

The scholarly import of the review can be ascertained in the first paragraph as Holding, the true Christian that he is, opens up with a fusillade of ad hominem...

Meeting Up with the Mythmaker

Between the Old and the New Testaments, perhaps the greatest heroes in all of Judaism were the Maccabee family - the brave fellows who stood up to the desecrator of the Temple and all-around jerk Antiochus Epiphanes. We remember the result of their deeds at this season along with those of our Savior. Today there is another "Maccoby" and he is neither warrior nor priest. He is a Talmudic scholar and a leading nuisance-writer against Christianity. Such is one way in which the family has gone downhill.
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The next sentence is equally telling...

Few scholars take the works of Hyam Maccoby seriously; you will not often see him quoted as an authority, and his books (like the one evaluated here, The Mythmaker - Harper and Row, 1986) belong on the same shelf as items like Holy Blood, Holy Grail and James the Brother of Jesus. In other words, Maccoby is a conspiracy theorist, and has all of the associated practices.
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The rest of the review is a riot...
 
I like Yahweh to represent the local side. We will send this scrawny teenager out to fight the mighty krkey armed with nothing but a slingshot.
 
So when does it start? I guess we'll have to wait for Yahweh to get out of school.

Anyway, I've got a cold beer, a hot dog, peanuts, and a score card.

Waiting for the umpire to yell, "Play ball!!."
 
Phil said:
So when does it start? I guess we'll have to wait for Yahweh to get out of school.

Anyway, I've got a cold beer, a hot dog, peanuts, and a score card.

Waiting for the umpire to yell, "Play ball!!."
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I believe Yahweh is in the training room getting a pre-game rubdown. But soon he will appear on the field of battle wearing his favorite leather codpiece.
 
[Howard Cossel voice]
Hello everyone! Howie Coleslaw welcoming everyone to JREF forum stadium. It's a beautiful fall day and we look forward to bringing a good match.

An experienced veteran from another board issued a challenge. A challenge that echoed throughout the fora. That challenge was accepted. Accepted by a young upstart, a boy, perhaps new to this world, but not without his own past. The gauntlet was cast and as been retrieved.

But now, a few words about our competitors…

Krkey, who is he? What do we know of this shadowy competitor? He appeared suddenly, bringing references and links and a cocky self-assuredness that got the attention of even the most relaxed of posters.

Yahweh, the local boy with more than his share of controversy. Few have not heard of him. But all know that he is a skilled fighter with more than a few wins under his belt.

What will be the outcome of this monumental battle? Will it be a Clash of the Titans or will David meet Goliath? Only time will tell.

We will return to this epic confrontation after this brief word from our sponsor.
[/Howard Cossel voice]
 
Dragonrock said:
[Howard Cossel voice]
Hello everyone! Howie Coleslaw welcoming everyone to JREF forum stadium. It's a beautiful fall day and we look forward to bringing a good match.

. . .

We will return to this epic confrontation after this brief word from our sponsor.
[/Howard Cossel voice]
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Awesome, Dragonrock. Can you do the guy from NFL films, too?
 
Keneke said:


From there an interesting debate might ensue, but comparing the Bible to a book that is obviously fiction is apples and oranges.
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Please provide anything that would show that the Wizard of Oz is "obviously fiction" that would not apply to the bible, outside of "everybody accepts it as fiction."
 
Although so far I have not learned much from krkey, he triggered some interesting replies worth reading.
 
While we are waiting for krkey to return, here is one of my favorite rebuttals of the Resurrection theory..

By Richard Carrier

Why I Don't Buy the Resurrection Story (2000)

An excerpt..

So, first of all, a resurrection of one man observed by a handful of others in one tiny spot on one tiny planet in one tiny corner of the cosmos is more consistent with a very minor deity (or a very stingy and secretive one), or even more likely a natural event: for there is an easy naturalistic explanation in religious zealotry or scientific ignorance. ...
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. .... Rather than the Almighty, One, True Creator of the Universe showing his love for all of mankind, by having his son executed, then raising him from the dead


Carrier says.. " And, as I say quite directly, "A god ought to know better."
 
You need a judge

krkey said:
Yahweh has already choosen to debate me, so first come, first served. If for whatever reason that fall through I will happily choose anyone else
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If you are going to have a formal debate, then you will also need a judge. I volunteer to be that judge.

I have 8 years' worth of experience judging debates already, and, as anyone who has read my stuff here can attest to, I am about as big a fence-sitter as you are likely to find. I do know some things about Yahweh's background that I do not know about yours, krkey, but it will not cloud my judgment.
 
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