Open Letter to Richard Gage

[BenBurch]

Incorrect.

Cardington Fire Test data:
http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/pr...trucfire/DataBase/TestData/BRETest/page47.htm

See, for example, Primary beam , grid line E , location B14. It reaches 600 C in just 17 minutes and 1000 C in 40 minutes.

Do you know the strength of steel at 600 C? How about 1000 C?

See also the graph I posted on the previous page.

 

[Clippy]

You got me. Unsupported claim. I sensed I was going out on a limb there. Intuition stikes again. A ton of molten metal at the foundation would spread heat to the bedrock and surrounding rubble. How long would that take? One weeks sounds like a long time. Stone is not a particularly good insulator. Also, the detectable heat source source would be 72 feet deep in debris which would make it unlikely to detect. Other than that I don't have anything to back it up. Anyone else want to weigh in on this one?

I appreciate your honesty. But I'm a bit surprised that you don't know this, given the intention of your letter. It would be nice to see something more quantitative here.

With regards to point 12 again. At what temperature does thermate ignite? What were the temperatures within the pile? Could there have been some sort of chain reaction where already molten metal set off unignited thermate? I'm not a proponent of CD, I'm just trying to anticipate points which may be raised by those who are.

 

[GregoryUrich]

I appreciate your honesty. But I'm a bit surprised that you don't know this, given the intention of your letter. It would be nice to see something more quantitative here.

With regards to point 12 again. At what temperature does thermate ignite? What were the temperatures within the pile? Could there have been some sort of chain reaction where already molten metal set off unignited thermate? I'm not a proponent of CD, I'm just trying to anticipate points which may be raised by those who are.

I reworded that statement as a question.

I just spent an hour searching on google and haven't found any reliable resources for thermate. However, thermite is notoriously difficult to ignite. Magnesium ribbon which burns at 2800 C does not always work. I have seen statements that thermate has "a slightly lower" ignition temperature and also "a significantly lower" ignition temperature. I think we can rest assured that the ignition temperature for thermate is > 1200 C. I'll check with Dr. Jones, he might have some good info.

 

[BenBurch]

I reworded that statement as a question.

I just spent an hour searching on google and haven't found any reliable resources for thermate. However, thermite is notoriously difficult to ignite. Magnesium ribbon which burns at 2800 C does not always work. I have seen statements that thermate has "a slightly lower" ignition temperature and also "a significantly lower" ignition temperature. I think we can rest assured that the ignition temperature for thermate is > 1200 C. I'll check with Dr. Jones, he might have some good info.

Railroaders use an oxy-acetylene torch. About 3400 C.

 

[Blender Head]

What is a magnesium ribbon?

 

[BenBurch]

What is a magnesium ribbon?

A thin strip of pure magnesium metal. Can be started with a propane torch, but then burns VERY hot.

 

[GregoryUrich]

A thin strip of pure magnesium metal. Can be started with a propane torch, but then burns VERY hot.

Magnesium can be started with a match.

 

[Pardalis]

Not really, Bush is just an inept puppet. It's the other guys I have suspicions about.

OK, whoever it is, you have a bias against this administration.

But try it as a thought experiment, if you stop being suspicious of them, for just a moment, don't all of your doubts about 9/11 become irrelevant?

For WTC1 and 2, I think the most likely explanation is very close to NIST's with no nefarious intervention. When we get the report on WTC7, we'll find out more about that.

So why exactly are you a truther?

I have never been a believer in CD. I thought it was a possibility. As far as CD goes, it does feel like we have been chasing ghosts. Now, I want to let others know there weren't any.

Good.

 

[BenBurch]

Magnesium can be started with a match.

Ah! I never tried. Always used a torch.

 

[Blender Head]

Thanks Ben.

One last question that is slightly OT, but what was the weight of one steel column that would be the height of the office floor used on the WTC Towers?

 

[BenBurch]

Thanks Ben.

One last question that is slightly OT, but what was the weight of one steel column that would be the height of the office floor used on the WTC Towers?

That I don't have time to calculate; Its not simple. First core columns differed from each other and were in turn different from tube wall columns. ALL were built up of welded plate and were made of thicker plate at the bottom than at the top in order to make the lightest possible structure. I'm sure that somewhere in the vast body of data out there this calculation must have been done already.

 

[GregoryUrich]

Thanks Ben.

One last question that is slightly OT, but what was the weight of one steel column that would be the height of the office floor used on the WTC Towers?

The mass of columns per floor, core and exterior separately, is given in my paper at the Journal of 9/11 Studies. See the linked spread sheet. Pick a floor and divide by 47 for the average mass of the core columns on a floor. I also give the core column dimensions for a number of floors. The height of the office floors varied somewhat but the average was 3.67m. See NCSTAR1-1 for particular floors.

 

[Blender Head]

The mass of columns per floor, core and exterior separately, is given in my paper at the Journal of 9/11 Studies. See the linked spread sheet. Pick a floor and divide by 47 for the average mass of the core columns on a floor. I also give the core column dimensions for a number of floors. The height of the office floors varied somewhat but the average was 3.67m. See NCSTAR1-1 for particular floors.

Thanks.

 

[pomeroo]

Welcome roundhead.

He isn't exactly a newcomer to this forum.

 

[pomeroo]

That dang liberal media again, huh?

It's not really liberal, you know. Studies show that less than 90% of the MSM is liberal. The real figure is only in the 82-87% range. Evan Thomas of Newsweek (he is himself a liberal) of estimated that liberal media bias is worth 10-15% to the Democrat in a presidential election. He later revised that figure down to 5-7%.

 

[pomeroo]

Straw man, Pommy old boy. I have never suggested that there is a huge shadow army of super-villains. Nonetheless, I am glad the world is coming to see the current administration as they really are.

I missed the part where you demonstrated why it was so much better to keep Saddam in power. How did your argument run again?

Please stay on topic. Thank you.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LibraryLady

 

[Seymour Butz]

To Gregory Urich:

If you want to be really accurate, use the architectural drawings that were posted at PP.

Cross reference it to whatever floor you want, based on this document:

wtcmodel dot wikidot dot com slash nist-core-column-data

Finally, use this calculator:

chapelsteel dot com slash weight-steel-plate

To get pretty accurate weights.

 

[BenBurch]

He isn't exactly a newcomer to this forum.

3cups four
1/3 cup salt
2tbsp oil (veg)
1cup water
7 drops food coloring.

mix dry ingredients with oil. add food coloring to water and mix together. add water to flour/salt/oil mixture slowly~about 1/4 cup at a time and mix together with a spoon. once you've added all the water, knead the dough with your hands.

 

[BenBurch]

I missed the part where you demonstrated why it was so much better to keep Saddam in power. How did your argument run again?

Here is mine;

We had a lid on him. Every time he put one stone on another at his weapons plants, or turned on a radar set we dropped enough ordinance on it to turn it into dust.

His people were poor, but had water, electricity, food, and sanitation.

And though he sometimes killed off his opposition, that was in the small number of hundreds per year.

Since we attack, there is not safe water or sanitation basically anywhere. Electricity in Baghdad is on only a few hours a day. And at least 100,000 Iraqis are dead now who would have been alive had we kept up with the sanctions regime. And thousands of dead and tens of thousands of maimed Americans would be whole and with their loved ones. And we would not have spent BILLIONS of dollars of American Taxpayers Money for a handful of magic beans.

 

[stateofgrace]

Ben, Ron and Greg, politics belong elsewhere.