Open letter to God

kittynh said:

And oddly enough, no one has yet picked up on the fact that this post has nothing to do with religion. AC said I'm too clever for my own good in a thread. I guess I'm too clever for my own venting jokes too.:(

I did. You're fine. Ignore BS posters.

:)
 
Navigator, to clarify my earlier post. One, it was made with a certain level of sarcasm explicit in it. However, I was attempting to address certain serious matters with serious answers. For instance, the "immortal soul is a terrible thing to waste". If there is such a thing as an immortal soul, I would say allowing that soul to end up in a place like the christian Hell to be a waste. Only by knowing what belief system is "true" can I take action to avoid that waste.

Also, I gave an honest response when I gave an example of what would constitute proof to me. It's a legitimate question from a christian, and deserves an honest response. To demonstrate the existence of a God essentially demands a form of miracle that cannot be (reasonably) attributed to any other cause. Even people being struck by lightning "out of the blue" can be explained by naturalistic causes. 25 terminally ill people at the end stage of their disease process all being cured simultaneously would be much harder to write off as natural. The time limit I set( 1 week) is set for a similiar reason. For such an unlikely event to occur within the stipulated time frame would further increase the probability that the event is in fact the proof I desire. Another reason for a deadline is equally simple. I don't know how long I might live. I could die before the end of the one week window. If I am to be convinced of which, if any, diety is real, I simply do not have the time to waste if I wish to ensure my soul's "salvation."

So, while the tone of my first post might have been sarcastic or mocking, the points I tried to make were not. I'll endeavour to restrain myself in how I express my opinions. I don't want the message to be obscured because someone takes offense at the language used to deliver it.
 
Pixel42 said:


When I was 10 I prayed that my father would stop sexually abusing me. I'm now 50, and have still not received anything approaching an answer to this prayer.

I don't have a nice glib pat answer for you. I will say that I believe that eventually--and this may be quite a long time--you will understand all of the reasons why God did not intervene in the way you asked at the time you ask, and I further believe that, once you have all the information, you yourself will agree that God did indeed have good and sufficient reason not to intervene at that particular point in time. And I further believe that you will be offered compensation which you will agree is appropriate and commensurate with what you had to endure.

It is necessary to keep in mind that God's sovereignty in this world is, for the present, disputed. This world, at present, is a combat zone. The Bible speaks of Satan as being "the god of this world," and for the present it appears that he is being given the chance to be exactly that. And the sad consequence of that is situations such as that which you had to endure.

I don't know exactly what it will take to break the status quo. The "Rapture Ready" folk have their own ideas, and I agree that such a scenario is plausible. But I personally have my sights set upon another possibility; I believe that what is needed is an open and public revelation of God to this world in this age. That is what I am praying for. That is what the request I have been praying for since 1975, as I mentioned above, has matured into. And as I said above, I have no intentions of giving up now. If I receive an answer to that request at any point in this lifetime, I will be content--and if I don't, then in the next life I will not be content until I know the reason why.
 

Excellent insight!
Anyone can claim to be anything.

But does the behavior give testimony to it?
I had a self proclaimed born againer watch calmly as his dog tried to tear me limb from limb.

So I have long ago been disabused of the noton that claims of membership in the Christian ranks mean anything at all except a claim.


I am not sure that behaviour gives testament to the christian belief systems.
There are many variations for a start.
Also, the god conecept is rather judgmental (even extrememly) which gives the followers the same traits...but then that is how god concepts are created in religious orgs.

The followers gravitate to the concept they most closely identify themselves with....like "If I was God THAT is how I would do it too" kinda thing.

Personally I do not allow the behaviours of differing religious persuasions to limit myself, or put a dark cloud over the notion of GOD outright, but certainly veer from those particular notions...wisely

I Love my own understanding of a personal God..and yes...that does involve 'doing nice and being nice' - but I don;t pray, nor do I worship.
 


When I was 10 I prayed that my father would stop sexually abusing me. I'm now 50, and have still not received anything approaching an answer to this prayer.

I'm currently reading Terry Pratchett's Discworld novel 'The Truth' and just came across this quote:

"Prayer is a sophisticated way of pleading with thunderstorms".

Says it all.


Greetings Pixel42

My Ex was seriously sexually abused and also prayed to God for it to stop.
She to did not see any stop in the abuse.

In the end (long story) God got the blame, and I got the repercusions - me and a lot of males, even though I had no thing to do with the abuses, and spent a great deal of effort trying to get her to let it go forgive and move on.
She preferred to hold on to the pain, be the victim and lost a good husband and friend.
She even changed our childrens names back to her maiden name, despite the fact that her own family abused her, her mother knew about the possibility of abuse and allowed the uncles to babysit.
So I learned that abuse wasn;t always as bad as it were made out to be, and that is was sometimes used as a weapon by the victim.
Okay...everyone has a different story, and what I learned from the whole deal is that believing in a superman god saviour is setting one's self up for disappiontment...such a concept is for perpetual victims.

What impresses me are those who have been abused and not only survive, but become so much stronger and dependable and their for others once they have dropped the mantle of 'victim' and assumed the role of victor.

These ones also drop there hatred/detestment for those whom abused them...not through denial, but through something very strong in truth.

They make beautiful companions...my present partner was gang-raped, and the perpetrators got away with it through their 'connections'.
Her choice was to be beautiful and strong regardless, and she is an inspiration to me and an answer to a request to the Universal Entity...and I am also an answer to her own request to the same Universal Entity...
..She also helped (just by being herself) my failing trust in 'Women' as a whole...I am in gratitude.

I myself am also someone who has experienced sexual abuse in my childhood.

I do not hold a grudge against God for allowing the experience to happen.
(What should god do...end the lives of all abusers?)

I think I am a better personality for it all....not that I advocate abuse at all....just that having experienced it in many forms, have not become it, nor allowed it to make me ever the victim.

Sorry if this is a bit strait to the point, and please do not translate this as an attack on you personally nor as something which belittles your own very real experience at the hands of an abuser.
 
To demonstrate the existence of a God essentially demands a form of miracle that cannot be (reasonably) attributed to any other cause.

Greetings Rose.

I believe in God.
I do not pray.
I do not worship.
I do not expect miracles, nor associate God as the performer of miraculous, or so-called 'paranormal' activity.
Essential demands are to those particular god concepts which have believers praying for miracles, becuase this somehow provides the evidence they need to believe.
It is enough for me to see Nature ( I like Albert E's comments on Nature) to convince me God Is.
Sure - I have had my 'requests' answered, but most of the time now, I don;t really request...It's more like I get this thought for something I might like, or something someone else might like, and it justs comes about.
Interestingly enough, it NEVER comes about the way I actually might imagine it to come about...and there is always some undercurrent of humor...but serendipity...syncronicity...hey I observe it all working out for me, and I guess I have learned just to see it as it comes rather than imagine how it will come.

So, while the tone of my first post might have been sarcastic or mocking, the points I tried to make were not. I'll endeavour to restrain myself in how I express my opinions. I don't want the message to be obscured because someone takes offense at the language used to deliver it.

Well I suppose that whenever you might have need to ask another for assistance, you would use appropriate language which would assure you the best chance of getting the result you were wanting.
 
On the subject of prayer - I had an experience, which I still vividly remember, a very long time ago - when I was at the height of my xian phase.

I was around 16 years old and was a committed xian. I attended what can really only be described as a fundamentalist xian church. I had absolutely no doubt that I was on the right track.

One Sunday night (we had 2 services on a Sunday - what a drag!) a visiting preacher came from England to lead a service. He was 'a big name', very upbeat and charismatic and soon had everyone in the hall in the palm of his hand. Everyone got pretty excited, including me, as he whipped up a holy frenzy in the room.

Just then, at the peak of excitement, he announced that he was going to perform some healings and wanted sick people to step up to the front. A number of people (maybe 15 or so) stepped up to receive their 'healing'. I personally knew most of them.

Then, as a twist, he asked everyone who was 16 or under to come to the front of the hall. I went to the front, along with some of my friends. He said that, as it was god actually doing the healing, he wanted the children to pray for the sick people - he would merely show the children how to pray for the sick.

Me and my friends were hanging on every word by this stage and we felt sure that god would use us to heal people. My friend and I were given a sick person - a lady who claimed she was allergic to wheat products. (I can remember actually thinking 'this isn't much of a challenge!').

The preacher gave us a brief how-to in faith healing and left us to it.

We prayed for the lady and by the end we were certain she was healed. She told us she'd felt a warm glow as we were praying and was sure she was healed. We all left that night with a faith renewed and a spring in our step.

The following week I was at a church barbeque and was helping to serve up the grub when the 'healed' lady walked up to get some food. I proudly handed a hot dog to her, in a nice soft roll. She took the food and bit into it, as if to prove her healing. She then wandered off into the crowd.

I didn't see the lady then for a week or two but when I did I asked her if she was enjoying her new-found wheat freedom. She gave me a funny look but said that, yes, she was having great fun eating cakes etc.
Later that day my mum mentioned the lady to me, saying how pale and wasted she looked and wasn't it a pity about her having been rushed to hospital the previous week! I asked what had happened and my mum confirmed that the allergy had flared up big time and the lady had collapsed.

I was utterly deflated and immediately phoned the lady to find out why she never mentioned this to me - I could have prayed for her again for goodness sake! She sheepishly admitted that her 'healing' wasn't quite the success she had let me believe but that she was sure it was her lack of faith that was the problem. When I offered another prayer session she quickly made excuses - the woman was obviously terrified of having to go through all that suffering again.

This little anecdote was just one of the many incidents in my life that slowly began to re-shape my opinions of the world, leading eventually to my current opinion that there is no god and praying is just as Pixel42 (quoting Pratchett) says - pleading with thunderstorms.

I always made excuses for god when I was a xian. If prayer didn't work, well I suppose that's just me not understanding the 'big picture'. Mysterious ways and all that.

I eventually got sick of making excuses. Or as Henry Rollins once said, "You can put make-up on a pig, but it's still a pig." (or something like that)
I got off my knees and started to take responsiblity for my own life, instead of waiting for someone to lead it for me.

Seems to be working, so far.;)
 
The GM said:
For other Christians in the gallery tonight...Do you think God filters out certain people's prayers? Would God refuse to listen to the desperate plea of an Atheist, for instance? How about thanksgiving offered up by a Shaman? What about the angry accusation from a Wiccan?
I'll be interested in the answers. :)
What about two Christians praying for the same thing? If a devot husband is praying for a Corvette and his wife is in the church pew next to him praying for a mini-van? [not what I originally typed...]
 
dear god,


thank you for sending me my little virgil. next time please sent money to cover the vet bills too.


virgil's daddy
 
Gulliamo said:
What about two Christians praying for the same thing? If a devot husband is praying for a Corvette and his wife is in the church pew next to him praying for a mini-van? [not what I originally typed...]

*laughs*
Well, I guess if they've been good, each gets what they want.
You fill in the 'wants' blanks with your own plausible solution scenario. :p
 

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