Open Letter to Dave Thomas

[DGM]

oops...I yelled at you, thinking it was him.

TAM

Ah, T.A.M. Breath. Read the post you just replied to.

 

[T.A.M.]

lol....I did...see how they can under your skin to the point where the annoyance takes over and makes you post before you verify the poster you are replying to.

Deep breath....in...and out...lol

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

lol....I did...see how they can under your skin to the point where the annoyance takes over and makes you post before you verify the poster you are replying to.

Deep breath....in...and out...lol

Friendly fire incident in 9/11 CT, it's happened before, I've done it myself.

It's all good.

 

[excaza]

lol..see above. I saw the words, and out of the corner of my eye thought it was cmatrix...lol

My apologies to you and him.

TAM

Too much green

 

[cmatrix]

No it is not impossible to have a period of free fall for the north face. If you remember the yardstick and ball experiment (or haven't hand waved it away yet.) Imagine the beams and slabs connecting the core structure to the perimeter columns as those yardsticks, The ball end representing the load on the columns of the north face. The interior core collapse precedes the outside perimeter collapse as shown when the penthouse drops through the roof. The core representing the hinge end of the yardsticks pulls in on the perimeter buckling the columns ( yes even 57 SIMULTANEOUSLY if you insist,) and there you have it, Global collapse ensues with a portion of it at free fall acceleration with no explosives at all necessary. We can close this thread now.

It's also possible fairies melted 8 stories of resisting structure with magic pixie dust. We have no proof that has ever happened before though. Explosives and thermitics could easily remove this resisting structure yet you prefer a theory with no supporting evidence whatsoever?

 

[ergo]

Temperature is a measurement of the kinetic energy of the individual molecules within, in this case, solid steel. As this kinetic energy increases the mechanical bonds that make steel rigid and strong weaken.

How does this differ from the definition I provide:

Weakening of steel occurs at a particular temperature, which itself is a measurement of the intensity of the thermal energy in the steel. You change temperature by changing the level or intensity of heat, not the other way around.

Please answer this question: if temperature is a measurement of this kinetic energy, what is causing the weakening of the mechanical bonds in the steel? The kinetic energy or the measurement of the kinetic energy?

 

[Newtons Bit]

Get your quotes right, Ergo. Excaza did not say that, I did.

 

[ergo]

Oh, now you want to respond? Excaza answered me. You didn't.

 

[ergo]

Um, excaza?

If temperature is a measurement of kinetic energy, what is causing the weakening of the mechanical bonds in the steel? The kinetic energy or the measurement of the kinetic energy?

Or Newtons Bit can answer for you, if he feels like it now.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Oh, now you want to respond? Excaza answered me. You didn't.

Excaza did not state that. I did. He quoted me.

Are you seriously trying to dodge from getting caught on misquoting someone now? Just admit a mistake and move on.

 

[twinstead]

It's also possible fairies melted 8 stories of resisting structure with magic pixie dust. We have no proof that has ever happened before though. Explosives and thermitics could easily remove this resisting structure yet you prefer a theory with no supporting evidence whatsoever?

But you prefer to believe that explosives removed the resisting structure with no supporting evidence whatsoever.

 

[cmatrix]

So, this is your theory - that every possible support is removed by explosive charges over a full 8 storeys.

It contains a fatal flaw. In round numbers, 8 storeys of WTC7 columns comes to some 650 column lengths in total. Each would need a pair of cutter charges top+bottom (otherwise cut column ends would spear falling floors, creating resistance). This makes approx. 2600 explosions to do the job, set off simultaneously, the majority of which would be by the walls and windows.

See the problem? It didn't happen.

There was no massive synchronised array of dazzling flashes and 130db booms. The kind that would be crystal clear on every video, would have flung smashed glass across large areas of S Manhattan and would have sounded like the loudest clap of thunder in NY's history and sent the needle off the scale of every audio recording.

There's something wrong with your theory. Where you've gone fundamentally wrong is in supposing that the measurement techniques are capable of determining between absolutely zero resistance and negligible, unmeasurable resistance. You're taking things much too literally and reaching unwarranted conclusions that are defied by reality.

Ever hear of blasting mats? Covert CD is not going to look the same as overt CD.

 

[ergo]

Excaza did not state that. I did. He quoted me.

Are you seriously trying to dodge from getting caught on misquoting someone now? Just admit a mistake and move on.

I have. I am asking a question.

If temperature is a measurement of kinetic energy, what is causing the weakening of the mechanical bonds in the steel? The kinetic energy or the measurement of the kinetic energy?

 

[carlitos]

LOL @ 'blasting mats' - cmatrix is getting debating tips from SteveAustin.

Dude, These were big steel and glass office buildings. Maybe you missed it.

 

[DGM]

Ever hear of blasting mats? Covert CD is not going to look the same as overt CD.

But, can it cause a building to fall at "free-fall" quietly? That's what your saying. Right?

 

[Newtons Bit]

I have. I am asking a question.

If temperature is a measurement of kinetic energy, what is causing the weakening of the mechanical bonds in the steel? The kinetic energy or the measurement of the kinetic energy?

Actually, you didn't. But if you are now, fine.

Temperature == kinetic energy of molecules. What other units will you express it in?

 

[beachnut]

I've read the report many times. There is absolutely no evidence there whatsoever to explain how fire caused WTC 7 to fall the way it did only unsupported pronouncements. Feel free to prove me wrong by providing exact page numbers.

You will need more knowledge to understand the report. You can't make a rational critique, all you do is talk. Present the areas you don't understand, present your critique based on science. There is evidence fire caused WTC 7 to fall. You failed to find it. Not surprising since all you do is talk and have not produced your own paper to refute NIST.

No evidence?

Ergo's invisible fire, invisible reflected on windows. Guess what this is called? Starts with e, ends with e. Need more clues?

 

[ergo]

Newtons Bit, is the question too difficult for you? Your answer will resolve this silly prolonged "debate".

If temperature is a measurement of kinetic energy, what is causing the weakening of the mechanical bonds in the steel? The kinetic energy or the measurement of the kinetic energy?

 

[Newtons Bit]

Newtons Bit, is the question too difficult for you? Your answer will resolve this silly prolonged "debate".

If temperature is a measurement of kinetic energy, what is causing the weakening of the mechanical bonds in the steel? The kinetic energy or the measurement of the kinetic energy?

The units of the kinetic energy is temperature. It's. The. Same. Thing.

 

[cmatrix]

If you must tell lies, try not to be so obvious. The energy to break up the structure, as you admit above, was supplied by GPE in the first part of the collapse; you then change your mind and pretend that I haven't accounted for it. I can understand you disagreeing with me, but now you're disagreeing with yourself.

Dave

So you now agree that when an object is in free fall all the available gravitational potential energy is converted to kinetic energy? Yet here you state:

"your statement that "With a free falling object all the available gravitational potential energy has been converted to kinetic energy" is inconsistent with simple Newtonian mechanics. Clearly, then, you don't understand Newtonian physics. (I'm being charitable here and assuming you're merely incompetent, rather than lying.)"

Unbelievable.