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OOS Collapse Propagation Model

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Major_Tom said:
Notice how nothing seems to come out the locations with known air vents. Nothing. This is because the talk about jet over-pressures shooting down air vents is mostly bogus. Anyone can see how the known air vents behave as the OOS collapse front approaches.
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A simple explanation would be that the vertical ducts are no longer connected and/or crushed by the falling floor. Why do you assume the air should follow the HVAC ducts? In fact the more I think about it the less likely it seems that the volume of air could enter the duct, there are only small openings at each floor.The path of least Resistance would be any open space.
 
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A great tool to help understand the vertical passageways for air from the WTC1 collapse initiation zone down to floor 72.

elevatorshaftszonesm.gif


Pathways are marked starting from the impact zone down to below the 75th floor MER.

Different groups of elevators open over a different range of floors, all of which bring passengers down to the Sky Lobby on floor 78. Passengers would transfer to elevators located in the 500-600 core columns to continue to ground

HVAC channels are light blue and yellow - same colors used by NIST.
Stairs - green
elevator shafts - red
all other channels - dark blue

The orange arrows show the ejection locations.

Notice that the 75/76 HVAC shafts extend up to the 91st floor. The floors above were connected to the 108/109 MER.


We can verify which elevators opened at which floors in detail by using the blueprints of the core of any floor available here:
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/plans/frames.html


These tools can be a great help for us to move beyond the most general guessing. All ideas can be checked for feasibility.
 
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Major_Tom said:
These tools can be a great help for us to move beyond the most general guessing. All ideas can be checked for feasibility.
Click to expand...

Can you say with any certainty that stairway doors were not propped open to help facilitate rescues? Your looking for ways to make this suspicious while over-looking the obvious.
 
Major_Tom said:
...We can verify which elevators opened at which floors.....
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There was a ruddy great bank of "high level local elevators" down to the sky lobby.

Each of them with a big gaping hole of a shaft running vertically down the building from the collapsing top bits.

And air pressure surges capable of blowing out windows therefore more than capable of opening or blowing out doors.

One question is "where were the elevator cars" given that the bits up top from which the cars hung on cables would have been 'slightly disarranged'. And I know that steel ropes do not shear easily.
 
The blueprints show twelve elevator shafts running from the collapse zone to floor 77.

Note that the shafts do not have individual walls, so they would not be effectively blocked by elevator cars unless all the cars in a contiguous shaft space happened to be at the same floor at that moment.

On every floor except 77 (and except for collision damage), those shafts would be isolated from the floors by elevator doors.

At floor 77, though, the blueprints show the shafts continue at that level, but the elevators could not be boarded at that floor. So instead of metal doors, the shafts were walled off by... what? A little drywall, some foam soundproofing maybe? Whatever it was, it was very likely damaged by cars fallen as a result of the plane crash. Venting of some of the overpressure at that floor is not surprising.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Myriad said:
The blueprints show twelve elevator shafts running from the collapse zone to floor 77.

Note that the shafts do not have individual walls, so they would not be effectively blocked by elevator cars unless all the cars in a contiguous shaft space happened to be at the same floor at that moment....
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Typical construction has one very open space for all the bank of elevators with the guide rails and some skeletal structural members - nothing to obstruct a downwards flow of pressurised air. Someone can check but I would lay odds that WTC was that layout.

So we have a realistic hypothesis.

....any takers with a counter claim? ;)

Remember also that these shafts were (AFAIK) common to the mid level elevator bank so the mid level winding gear would be across the shaft together with a decking for maintenance work.
 
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Major_Tom said:
And the ejections shown from WTC2?

[qimg]http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/images/pagemaster/570664672_2_w.jpg[/qimg]

Here in another one in the same area:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX-ibyE_4Eo
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So what Major_Tom?

What are you trying to say and why not say it rather than leaving us guessing?

Most of us here are well aware that ejections occurred. We do not need convincing of the fact. So why are you trying to post the obvious? Give us a clue please.
 
I doubt if you have ever seen some of the ejections I am showing before.

Here is an interesting set of ejections down the east side of WTC1 between floors 50 and 55.

236661333.jpg


906785346.gif




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkS58AwDX0E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr5GJwfLCl4

Here is the moment in the first clip when the first ejections are clearly visible:

east_ejections.jpeg



Ozeco post 1473: "What are you trying to say and why not say it rather than leaving us guessing?

You have no explanation for this phenomenon.
 
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I see the face of Satan. Definitely.

ETA -
ozeco41 said:
So we have a realistic hypothesis.

....any takers with a counter claim?
Click to expand...

.....and Major_Tom just switched subjects to another building. I wonder why he won't refute that hypothesis (about accessibility to elevator shafts due to lack of doors on floor 77) of WTC1 or present a counter-claim?

Hello? Major_Tom? Losing focus? Here's post #1:

Major_Tom said:
Hello,

I am requesting feedback on a paper about a model of the collapse progression of WTC1.
Click to expand...
 
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Carlitos, you are the king of lost focus.

Ejections must be considered as a whole. OOS progression applies to WTC1 and 2 equally.

The OOS presentation in the OP discusses WTC1 but once the ROOSD mechanism is accepted, it obviously applies to each twin of the set.

Obviously each party cannot choose their favorite ejections.
 
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Major_Tom said:
I doubt if you have ever seen some of the ejections I am showing before....
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So what? Two buildings collapsed with lots of ejections. The aim of discussion is to show the cause of the ejections. I am clear - they were caused by the building collapsing. If you want to claim otherwise the onus is on you to state what you think caused the collapse. I have already countered one of your assertions by innuendo and identified the lift shafts as a probable reason for the focus of ejection at level 77. That hypothesis of mine stands unrebutted at this stage. Also unacknowledged and ignored by you.

There is no point in me continuing to offer discussion if you have no intention of responding.

Major_Tom said:
...Here is an interesting set of ejections down the east side of WTC1 between floors 50 and 55.

[qimg]http://femr2.ucoz.com/_ph/6/2/236661333.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://femr2.ucoz.com/_ph/6/2/906785346.gif[/qimg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkS58AwDX0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr5GJwfLCl4

Here is the moment in the first clip when the first ejections are clearly visible:

[qimg]http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/images/photoalbum/13/east_ejections.jpeg[/qimg]...
Click to expand...
This ploy is potentially infinite. When will you make a claim or respond to mine? Do we need to wait till you run out of pictures of ejections?
Major_Tom said:
...Ozeco post 1473: "What are you trying to say and why not say it rather than leaving us guessing?

You have no explanation for this phenomenon.
Click to expand...
You are the person making the unfinished or unstated claim. The onus is on you to complete it.

carlitos said:
I see the face of Satan. Definitely.

ETA -


.....and Major_Tom just switched subjects to another building. I wonder why he won't refute that hypothesis (about accessibility to elevator shafts due to lack of doors on floor 77) of WTC1 or present a counter-claim?

Hello? Major_Tom? Losing focus? Here's post #1:
Click to expand...
thank you for pointing out the process problem with evasions - given that M_T started to present the claim it is way too early for him to be playing "switch the burden of proof"
Major_Tom said:
Carlitos, you are the king of lost focus.

Ejections must be considered as a whole. OOS progression applies to WTC1 and 2 equally.

The OOS presentation in the OP discusses WTC1 but once the ROOSD mechanism is accepted, it obviously applies to each twin of the set.

Obviously each party cannot choose their favorite ejections.
Click to expand...
M_T your confusion with both logic and the process of discussion is showing. You have partially introduced another claim. "Ejections must be considered as a whole." Why not finish that claim and the half completed ones you tried to pass off as my responsibility?
 
95 percent air, the hidden mass in the WTC, stumps demolition delusion goals. For 911 truth, the demolition delusion continues to fuel failed efforts to back in failed claim of explosives, silent ones at that. The OP "paper" is an example.

The big question, why are 911 truth papers conclusion free? Absent of goals? When I see "papers" like this and other failed 911 truth work inspried by the fantasy of demolition, what are the reasons no evidence of explosives were found? The big hole in the fantasy, and the reason these papers avoid directly addressing the real goal, the want-to-be conclusion of demoltion, hoping to find enough woo to convice the gulillible there is a vast conspracy.

In this case the "model" is limited, glosses over the hard to explain parts of the WTC collapse. Implications of woo appear when an object is ejected, or air escapes. Why are papers like the OP myopic? Why are idiotic claims of patterns made? Are patterns a step to back in the inside job?

Why are photos presented confirming a gravity collapse?

The "papers" from 911 truth make blanket statements, but don't deliver.
allow us to understand the probable mechanism by which the tower collapsed.
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What is it? Demolition? The old silent explosive, no blast damage super duper quiet no-blast explosives? But more important, the introductions of 911 truth papers don't explain study of the collapse will not explaining what caused the collapse, which is the true goal of the "papers", but only to back in failed claims.



... it is concluded that the portion of the flooring that holds the perimeter to the core must have been stripped or eroded as debris initially descended to the ground, leaving much of the core standing and the perimeter unsupported.
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There is a lot missing.


the temporary survival of the entire northern portion of the core
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Why was the survival of a portion (there was no entire) of the core temporary?

When will the demolition delusion stop fueling new studies to back in failed claims? May 2011? 9112011? What is the next attempt going to look like? This is the 911 CT sub forum, and this paper fits, fueled by the need to have a CT conclusion. Cool.
 
Major_Tom said:
Ozeco post 1473: "What are you trying to say and why not say it rather than leaving us guessing?

You have no explanation for this phenomenon.
Click to expand...

/me takes breath, expecting yet another evasion and knowing he will regret this question...

And you do?
 
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