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One Question for 28th Kingdom

JonnyFive said:
Well, it might use thermite. The company that hosts the video, Spectre Enterprises, holds this patent for a thermite-based cutting torch.
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Holding a patent doesn't mean that such a device exists. YOu do know there are patents on mind reading devices, yet none of them have been made. There are even patents on anti-grav devices, yet none exist.
 
JonnyFive said:
So you should have no problem posting evidence that such a device exists, and that hundreds of them were deployed in the twin towers. Also, not destroyed or disabled by the plane crash and resulting fires.

Any specs on the max thickness of steel that the thermite torch can cut?

The column design is not the same as a small piece of rebar. Such a cutting device would have to cut all along the length of the column on all four sides to produce the kind of effect shown in the rebar video.

You still haven't dealt with the scale issues, or the providing evidence issue.
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I like how you deniers play by different rules. Of, course it's okay for NIST to create models and conduct experiments only to ignore their findings...so that they can create computer simulations of the events on 9/11 that would give them whatever answers they were looking for. They surely don't need to recreate the WTC in its original size...heck, they don't even need models...they can just use computer simulations.

But, then you pose a question to us...we provide you with unbelievable video footage of a device, that can cut vertical steel...but that's not good enough. We need to reconstruct a steel column the exact size of the ones in the WTC Towers in order to prove therma/ite can cut through them.

GET LOST. You lose. You were just owned by Einstein...and now, yer all just a bunch of blithering fools. This device is the one piece of evidence you were all resting your hats on...and Einstein just shoved it in your faces.

Maybe you should all take a step back....and start to heavily reconsider your thoughts about 9/11....since you all have NOTHING. You've got nothing, and that's why you all refuse to answer any questions about your own theory.

I even created you your own thread, so that you could discuss your side of things...but nope, you don't have to answer questions...you can just play the cynic, and avoid reality...by denying anything we say...no matter if it's even reconfirmed in mainstream media publications (that you believe so much in)

Note to USG Cult Members: DENYING IS NOT DEBUNKING.
 
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Arus808 said:
Holding a patent doesn't mean that such a device exists. YOu do know there are patents on mind reading devices, yet none of them have been made. There are even patents on anti-grav devices, yet none exist.
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I understand, but it does appear that the company which created the video holds a patent for a device matching the description of what's shown in the video. I don't know for sure, because their web site just shows a login page.

It sounds, from the patent description, that the device uses thermite, a nozzle, a fuse, and some kind of liner to direct the reaction. I don't see why that wouldn't work, as thermite is used in non-vertical welding and cutting currently. I think it's a massive stretch, however, for the CTists to then claim that this means the evil gubmint used thermite to bring down the towers, or that it's even possible.

If it wasn't using thermite, then what was it using?

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe they've shown evidence at all that a thermite-based device could sever a vertical support column. I think rebar-cutting is about as good as the Spectre device is going to get.
 
28th Kingdom said:
I like how you deniers play by different rules.
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We are not deniers. How can we deny something if we agree with the findings and conclusions? We accept the explanations found in the NIST, FEMA and the 911 comission reports. That is not denying in any definition of the word.

WE play by different rules? When has the rules on scientific investigation ever changed? You find evidence, and based on that evidence you come to a conclusion.

The only people playing by "different rules" are those who have a conclusion and FIND evidence to support that conclusion. Namel YOU and your ilk are teh "deniers".

Of, course it's okay for NIST to create models and conduct experiments only to ignore their findings...so that they can create computer simulations of the events on 9/11 that would give them whatever answers they were looking for. They surely don't need to recreate the WTC in its original size...heck, they don't even need models...they can just use computer simulations.
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Yes, the hundreds of engineers and scientists all coluded to "doctor" their information to obtain the results they wanted. :rolleyes: Sorry, but with that many people, its gonna be quite hard to get a group of them, let alone all of them to agree to that.

NIST based their models and simulations on what was known about the wtc towers and the airplanes. They found EVIDENCE (physical) evidence that supports their claims.

Its obvious you did not read the NIST report and are again, cherry picking statements from that report without fully understand the report

But, then you pose a question to us...we provide you with unbelievable video footage of a device, that can cut vertical steel
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Its a device. It could be a high powered blow torch, but YOUR claim is that the towers were brought down by Thermite. Taht device sheered a piece of REbar. Seeing that rebar isn't exacly the SAME material and THICKENSS of the type of steel beams that supported the WTC towers, a similar device would have to be much bigger and at least 1000 times more powerful. And you'd have to have HUNDREDS of them.

Now, why wouldn't the people who worked there 24/7 a day notice such devices?


...but that's not good enough. We need to reconstruct a steel column the exact size of the ones in the WTC Towers in order to prove therma/ite can cut through them.
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No, you need to provde the EXACT device used to house the thermite and do what you claim.

GET LOST. You lose. You were just owned by Einstein...and now, yer all just a bunch of blithering fools.
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OMG.
YOu are ineherently dishonest and purposefully obtuse.

Einstein did nothing of the sort. He provided a shoddy video of a device. No explanation. No description, nothing of the sort.

Tell Einstein to provide the full context of that video. At least testimony from that company . A video without coroborating testimony, has nothing of value.
 
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28th Kingdom said:
I like how you deniers play by different rules. Of, course it's okay for NIST to create models and conduct experiments only to ignore their findings...so that they can create computer simulations of the events on 9/11 that would give them whatever answers they were looking for. They surely don't need to recreate the WTC in its original size...heck, they don't even need models...they can just use computer simulations.

But, then you pose a question to us...we provide you with unbelievable video footage of a device, that can cut vertical steel...but that's not good enough. We need to reconstruct a steel column the exact size of the ones in the WTC Towers in order to prove therma/ite can cut through them.

GET LOST. You lose. You were just owned by Einstein...and now, yer all just a bunch of blithering fools. This device is the one piece of evidence you were all resting your hats on...and Einstein just shoved it in your faces.

Maybe you should all take a step back....and start to heavily reconsider your thoughts about 9/11....since you all have NOTHING. You've got nothing, and that's why you all refuse to answer any questions about your own theory.

I even created you your own thread, so that you could discuss your side of things...but nope, you don't have to answer questions...you can just play the cynic, and avoid reality...by denying anything we say...no matter if it's even reconfirmed in mainstream media publications (that you believe so much in)

Note to USG Cult Members: DENYING IS NOT DEBUNKING.
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Wow! Just when you think the dumb can't get any dumber! The first two paragraphs are a doozy and proves to me that he has zero concept of any of the scientific issues. Does he think before he posts?
 
28th Kingdom said:
I like how you deniers play by different rules. Of, course it's okay for NIST to create models and conduct experiments only to ignore their findings...so that they can create computer simulations of the events on 9/11 that would give them whatever answers they were looking for. They surely don't need to recreate the WTC in its original size...heck, they don't even need models...they can just use computer simulations.
Click to expand...

You seriously expect NIST to rebuild a 110 storey tower to test? Want them to crash a plane into it also?

But, then you pose a question to us...we provide you with unbelievable video footage of a device, that can cut vertical steel...but that's not good enough. We need to reconstruct a steel column the exact size of the ones in the WTC Towers in order to prove therma/ite can cut through them.
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I think you meant 'believable', but that aside, showing the cutting of a 2" dia. piece of steel reinforcement does not come close to showing a device which could slice (like a knife through butter) through a vertical 'I' beam, square hollow section or circular hollow section.

The device in your film doesn't move, therefore there is a max size of steel section it could cut. If you could strap that to a steel column the best you could hope for would be a hole.
 
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Please stay on topic people.

This has nothing to do with patents or NIST or even WTC.

Please do not get off on a tangent responding to einsteen, 28th Kingdom or anyone else on anything else.

Take those discussions elsewhere.

I just want to see a thermi/ate device that cuts vertical steel columns.

By definition rebar IS NOT a steel column.
 
Arus808 said:
Its a device. It could be a high powered blow torch, but YOUR claim is that the towers were brought down by Thermite. Taht device sheered a piece of REbar. Seeing that rebar isn't exacly the SAME material and THICKENSS of the type of steel beams that supported the WTC towers, a similar device would have to be much bigger and at least 1000 times more powerful. And you'd have to have HUNDREDS of them.
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Even assuming it is the thermite torch that Spectre claims it is, it still doesn't help any of their other claims. There are still all the issues of scale and number that they claim are not issues at all.

Yeah, makes lots of sense.
 
28th Kingdom said:
GET LOST. You lose. You were just owned by Einstein...and now, yer all just a bunch of blithering fools. This device is the one piece of evidence you were all resting your hats on...and Einstein just shoved it in you're faces.
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Ok, suppose we take Einstein's device as a real possibility. Note how the device, as I suggested in another thread, remains on the rebar, below the cut. Note also its size (and adjust as necessary for the larger columns). Note also that it does not burn itself into nothingness.

So, in the pictures you have previously identified as columns that were cut with thermite, where are the devices? This would be the slam-dunk you are looking for; it would be evidence none of us could deny. From Einstein's video, if we take it as a real possibility, we know that the device would survive being used; there should be (if the CT theories are right) hundreds of these in the rubble. Even if most are crushed, like the office equipment was, there are areas (like the one pic you showed) where the device would have been protected enough to remain identifiable, and we know that the rubble was sifted very carefully while looking for human remains.

Where are the devices?

eta: Sorry, spindrift, for the tangent. I'll back off.
 
28th Kingdom said:
But, then you pose a question to us...we provide you with unbelievable video footage of a device, that can cut vertical steel...but that's not good enough. We need to reconstruct a steel column the exact size of the ones in the WTC Towers in order to prove therma/ite can cut through them.
Click to expand...

That was not what was asked for. Cutting rebar is not anywhere near the same as cutting a vertical steel column.

I never said it had to cut one the exact size as the ones in the WTC Towers.

I just want to see one that cuts a vertical steel column using thermi/ate. Cutting rebar is not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination.
 
28th Kingdom said:
Thank you Jonny5, for at least having some sense. Here is something I posted a few days ago about a hypothetical therma/ite device that can be used to cut vertical steel columns:
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Oh, you should not be thanking me at all. I only said that Spectre appears to have a patent for a device matching the description of the one in the video which claims to use thermite. Based on that evidence, I provisionally accept that a thermite-based torch is possible.

So the company has managed to direct thermite to cut rebar. Big deal. I have serious doubts that the thermite reaction could even be properly directed and sustained to the level required to begin to cut a vertical support column, and I have seen no evidence to the contrary from you or anyone else.

I then asked you to provide evidence of the ability of such a device to scale up to cut a massive steel column, and to provide evidence that hundreds of them were deployed on the WTC towers.

I have no interest in your hypotheticals. I want evidence that you have not provided.

ETA: By the way, the Spectre device does not destroy itself, and would be rendered inoperable by a plane crash or fire.
 
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For the record, I shot off an email to those listed on the Contact page for Spectre Enterprises, to hopefully get a full explanation of the "video" that is found on their website:

http://www.spectreenterprises.net/contactUs.asp

Unlike 28th, einstein, and wizard; before I post something and use it as "proof" , I take the initiative to contact the people responsible for that "proof" to get their explanation and confirm exactly what it is they are showing.

I'll post their reply when i get it.

I also gave them the link to this thread, just in case that one of those listed, may be interested in giving an answer here.
 
I posted that patent in a couple of 28th's threads last week. Nice to see we have a video of the device in action, but still not scaled up to the size needed to demo the WTC.

Also interesting to note they label that video the "large torch".....


Now could one of the CTists please contact the company, and ask if they can make a torch of the size needed?

http://www.spectreenterprises.net/contactUs.asp

Oh, and we'd still need proof that these were used at the WTC. Any pictures of such devices in any of the rubble? They would be fairly distinctive, don't you think?
 
Arus808 said:
For the record, I shot off an email to those listed on the Contact page for Spectre Enterprises, to hopefully get a full explanation of the "video" that is found on their website:
Click to expand...

Thanks, I was considering calling them in a bit, but that will work as well.
 
Horatius said:
Oh, and we'd still need proof that these were used at the WTC. Any pictures of such devices in any of the rubble? They would be fairly distinctive, don't you think?
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And there would need to be tons of them. Somehow no on noticed. Must've been hypnotized.
 
Einsteen(and 28th), do you believe that the device you referenced is capable of cutting a beam that has a circumference(probably not the right word) of 108 inches?

Its great that you found a device that can cut a tiny piece of rebar as I'm sure that comes in handy for the rebar people. But, its completely not applicable here and if you cant see why, I can't help you..

ETA, is this thing actually using a jet of Thermite? I cant imagine that this is simply a torch..
 
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apathoid said:
Einsteen(and 28th), do you believe that the device you referenced is capable of cutting a beam that has a circumference(probably not the right word) of 108 inches?

Its great that you found a device that can cut a tiny piece of rebar as I'm sure that comes in handy for the rebar people. But, its completely not applicable here and if you cant see why, I can't help you..
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If you look at the patent, the devices can be ganged together to cut along a line. Also, the size tends to scale with the size of the object being cut, so consider the relative dimensions of the device in the video, and then scale it up to the size of the columns. And then strap a whole bunch together....for every column.

It would be quite massive, I'm sure. And then try to place all of these in secret, and then recover the evidence from the site while every camera in the city is pointing at you.....

And 28th claims he can see the "big picture"? It is to laugh.....

But yes, props to Einsteen for actually finding some evidence.
 
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