One possible way to end Affirmative Action?

[Tricky]

WTF? This makes no sense at all. There is no genetic basis for skin color? I guess when African babies come out of the womb, they look around, see a bunch of black people, and suddenly their skin starts becoming black as they absorb their African culture?

Let's see if I can explain it to you, Genghy.

In some parts of the US, a child born to one black and one white parent is called "mulatto". In other areas of the US, that child is simply "black". It is the same child, but it's racial classification is determined by the local culture.

This is sort of moot, since there is practically no one who is "pure black" or "pure white" anymore.

Such terms as "high yellow", "cajun", have meaning in some places but not in others.

Here's another list of some racial classifications you probably never heard of.

 

[BillyTK]

methinks he's talking about the scientific definition of "race" vs its common usage.

You can have light skinned African american who has whiter skin then some white guy (for example an olive skinned Italian). That doesn't make the African American guy "white".

Okay, it goes like this; some point in the 16th or 17th century whilst everyone's out there busily cataloging the natural world, someone has the great idea of doing the same with people. So they choose skin colour 'cos it's kind of an obvious thing, and decide that people with a different skin colour must be a separate subspecies. Some people figured there was as many as 300 different sub-species, but most commonly it was three to five, with white people at the top, because they had intelligence and technology going for them which was obviously linked to their whiteness, and black people at the bottom, because with their black skins and living in the jungle they were obviously barely above animals. Orientals floated somewhere inbetween; not quite as good as whites, but obviously tons cleverer than blacks.

A couple of people named deGobineau and Chamberlain are worth mentioning here, as their "research" into race had a profound influence on a certain Mr Hitler. Anyway, these days, race and ethnicity are used kind of interchangeably, but some people are still clinging on to the old racial classification even though research shows there's no evidence for it at the genetic level. people have different colour skin--so what? If someone could figure out a way to safely boost your melanin levels, you could be as dark as you want to be; basically, using skin colour to classify people is as useful as using eyecolour or height. So skin colour is biological, but race is cultural; you're born into a culture, but you aint born with culture, unless anyone wants to throw out a claim for culture and language being encoded at the genetic level?

 

[hammegk]

Interesting comment in today's Rocky Mtn News that SAT scores for blacks -- parents making over $100,000 / yr -- are 142 points lower than whites whose parents make over $100,000 /yr.

How do you pc'libs reconcile this? Same reason whites got the same amount of rhythm?

We need AA so whites can learn to dance maybe? (And be competitive in the 100yd dash? -- 10 yd headstart -- )


BTW, is it ok to discuss whiggers (who often appear to live in lowest-class trailer parks)? Why are some people so hung-up on skin color as the only racial characteristic?

 

[Tmy]

BTW, is it ok to discuss whiggers (who often appear to live in lowest-class trailer parks)?

How about Eminem? Ever notice he gets tons of airplay on Alternative stations. Whats up with that? Since when do they play rap music? ONLY WHEN ITS DONE BY A WHITE MAN!!! Hows that for affirmative action.

 

[hammegk]

Hows that for affirmative action.

Yeah, real-life Beverly Hilly-billys count too.

 

[Genghis Pwn]

Interesting comment in today's Rocky Mtn News that SAT scores for blacks -- parents making over $100,000 / yr -- are 142 points lower than whites whose parents make over $100,000 /yr.

How do you pc'libs reconcile this? Same reason whites got the same amount of rhythm?

We need AA so whites can learn to dance maybe? (And be competitive in the 100yd dash? -- 10 yd headstart -- )

Don't expect this relevant fact to be addressed directly in a logical and rational way. It will be ignored, or spun, because it does not fit into their PC agenda.

 

[DavidJames]

"Don't expect this relevant fact to be addressed directly in a logical and rational way. It will be ignored, or spun, because it does not fit into their PC agenda."

Yawn, you, like JK and ilk, are wrong yet again. I suggest you move back to Banter and start another thread on breasts or sex or how you are turning over a new leaf.

Here is a link which discusses this and much more. Specific to SATs it mentions some possible explanations. I don't know the answer, and I won't pretend I do (hint).

http://www.jbhe.com/latest/37_b&w_sat.html

"Data from The College Board shows that 52 percent of white students who take the SAT are ranked in the top 20 percent of their high school class. This compares to 32 percent of black test takers. Some 46 percent of white students who take the SAT report that their high school grade point average is in the A range. This compares to only 22 percent of black test takers. These figures alone can explain the large racial scoring gap on the SAT. "

 

[hammegk]

[B
"Data from The College Board shows that 52 percent of white students who take the SAT are ranked in the top 20 percent of their high school class. This compares to 32 percent of black test takers. Some 46 percent of white students who take the SAT report that their high school grade point average is in the A range. This compares to only 22 percent of black test takers. These figures alone can explain the large racial scoring gap on the SAT. " [/B]

Yeah, i.e. 15 points on the IQ scale. Got something worthwhile to say?

 

[JAR]

Where I live there are so many Mexican-Americans working at fast-food restaurants that affirmative action would do nothing but aid me in getting a job, assuming I wanted to work at a fast-food restaurant. But I don't want to work at all. I don't support affirmative action and my reasons are that it doesn't solve overpopulation and its morally wrong.

If a non-white employer doesn't want to hire white people, that's none of my business. Not only that, the type of person who doesn't want to hire white people just for being white is the type of person I want to go out of my way to steer clear of.

 

[JAR]

Anyone hear about that case just won in court that said a university can use affirmative action or something?

Looks like the "Michael Moore" crowd wins this one.

 

[BillyTK]

Anyone hear about that case just won in court that said a university can use affirmative action or something?

Looks like the "Michael Moore" crowd wins this one.

Lookes like it's a draw between the "Michael Moore"s and "Ann Coulters"; the ruling states that the principle of affirmative action is upheld and universities can continue to use it, but specific implementations of AA programmes which look like a quota system are illegal, such as the University of Michigan's points system: Mixed ruling on US affirmative action. Which is a sense that's not.

 

[Genghis Pwn]

"Data from The College Board shows that 52 percent of white students who take the SAT are ranked in the top 20 percent of their high school class. This compares to 32 percent of black test takers. Some 46 percent of white students who take the SAT report that their high school grade point average is in the A range. This compares to only 22 percent of black test takers. These figures alone can explain the large racial scoring gap on the SAT. "

Lol, he didn't ignore or spin the facts -- now he's playing dumb! The "possible answer" you gave to refute hammegk's SAT data confirms his assertions! Of course you would expect people with substantially lower IQs to not fare as well grade-wise in school.

DavidJames, you've got to be kidding me. You are not going to slide by with flawed arguments and half-ass logic here. It's better to admit when you are wrong.

 

[c0rbin]

Whoa, fell out of the conversation for a little bit there.

JJ, thanks for sharing your expirience. That's a tough break for you. It seems like you were able to pull together something for yourself and seem to have a healthy outlook.

Well done, man.

I am still not convinced that "whites" in general are harmed by AA. Quite the contrary, exposing "pwhites" to different cultures beyond what they see on COPs is a great boon.

kerfer:

Please read the anti-descrimination laws that are posted on this thread, the ones that are Affirmative Action and tell me if they are racist.

Remeber, quotas are illegal and have been struck down. This is not the case for AA, as has recently been shown in the supreme court.

 

[DavidJames]

"DavidJames, you've got to be kidding me. You are not going to slide by with flawed arguments and half-ass logic here. It's better to admit when you are wrong."

Believe me, when I'm wrong, I admit it.

I believe the flawed arguments are in the Bell Curve

http://www.skeptic.com/04.3.siano-bellcurve.html
http://slate.msn.com/id/2416/
http://home.att.net/~Resurgence/L-15point.htm

I expect you will dismiss these rebuttals.

I understand the desire to accept the simple answer, that whites are inherently smarter than blacks, much like one would accept other simple answers in life. Of course this one has the added bonus of making us white folk superior simply by being born, no need to actually achieve anything. I think this answer, however, is much to convenient. You are welcome to accept it, I choose to continue looking. If it turns out that I, by accident of birth, have a 15 point advantage, BFD, although It might make my feelings about AA even stronger. You know, concern about humanity and all that liberal rubbish.

 

[Tmy]

Studies show that tall men are more succsessful in the workplace.

It must be because they are born smarter. Of course blacks on average are taller than whites.. So it must be that blacks are smarter than whites. Can't refute science.

 

[jj]

Yeah, real-life Beverly Hilly-billys count too.

Wayll, thank ye kindly for that, Hammy! I'll just let the folks back in Philippi know how gen'rous y'all are.

 

[jj]

Whoa, fell out of the conversation for a little bit there.

JJ, thanks for sharing your expirience. That's a tough break for you. It seems like you were able to pull together something for yourself and seem to have a healthy outlook.

Beats living in Youngstown. (Yes, I have the necessary understanding to state that as an informed personal preference.)

 

[kerfer]

kerfer:

Please read the anti-descrimination laws that are posted on this thread, the ones that are Affirmative Action and tell me if they are racist.

I honestly don't remember seeing any.

I do remember someone stating that to be the case (that the antidiscrimination laws surrounding Race Based Admissions preclude selection by race ), but I don't remember seeing any evidence to support that claim.

But I also remember someone arguing that Race Based Admissions were not about race . That makes no sense to me.

Remeber, quotas are illegal and have been struck down. This is not the case for AA, as has recently been shown in the supreme court.

I guess it depends which part of the decision you reference. They found that Race Based Admissions programs as implemented by the Law school at UMich were not unconstitutional, but the Race Based Admissions policies as implemented by the undergrad admissions process at UMich were unconstitutional. (anyone for another serving of Appeal to Authority?) (In any event, the USSC does not decide that which is moral/ethical. They decide only on that which is or is not in accordance with the US Constitution.)

It's all irrelevant to my point: that Race Based Admissions policies are (by definition) racist, and therefore wrong.

This is the only thing that I'm saying in this thread, and there are folks that keep wanting to add a whole bunch of baggage to it. I have my suspicions on why that is the case, but that's also outside of my point.

 

[JAR]

Studies show that tall men are more succsessful in the workplace.
[snip]

Is this true? I really don't know whether or not you're joking.

 

[BillyTK]

It's all irrelevant to my point: that Race Based Admissions policies are (by definition) racist, and therefore wrong.

Just for clarification, what's the definition of racism you're using here?