On Hal Bidlack's Comment

[Christian]

Christian,

IMO the way forward for the JREF is to restrict access to the forum to registered AND PAID members only.

Maybe you are right.

JREF members only( "Hey you! Are you a member? JOIN NOW!").

Was this directed at me?

 

[Loki]

Christian,

I have repeatedly asked you to not do what you are doing. You are a Jeckyl and Hide to me.

Yes, nice of you to bring up the "Jekyll and Hyde" analogy. That's pretty much how I feel about this issue - from my perspective you have at various times offered two completely contrasting opinions, and I cannot see the logic behind the change...

I really don't know how else to tell you to stop.

And I really don't know if I should stop! You've asked me to, and you've backed away from any such assertion now - so that tells me the issue is 'dead'.

But then I wonder how this could be, since you were so adamant about this 2 years ago. Sometimes I wonder whether you have some agenda which is being served by you perhaps "seeming" to back away from earlier comments.

But thinking about it I guess the most valid point here is that if I want to allege that you prevoius said something, I need to support it in some way, with more than just my memory. Since I can't bring forward any such evidence, then the correct behaviour is to leave it be. But it's not forgotten, and I'll be watching to see if your consistency waivers on this issue.

 

[Loki]

Christian,

Was this directed at me?

No, not a personal comment - just took the oppotunity to insert a paid advertisement. It was directed at any and all non-members. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether you want to publicly include or exclude yourself from that catergory

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Yahzi,

Hey, long time no see! How ya doing...

 

[Christian]

Christian,


No, not a personal comment - just took the oppotunity to insert a paid advertisement. It was directed at any and all non-members. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether you want to publicly include or exclude yourself from that catergory

I have never paid to be here. The day I have to pay for being here, I will ask myself, what service am I being provided, what are my rights as a paying customer, etc. If I decide the service is worth it, they I will pay.

As it stands today, the only reason to pay is as a contribution to a cause. In that respect, I choose not to contribute to this particular cause.

 

[Loki]

Christian,

I have never paid to be here.

And in the interests of full disclosure, I have only been a member since last year - always intended to, just never got around to it.

The day I have to pay for being here, I will ask myself, what service am I being provided, what are my rights as a paying customer, etc. If I decide the service is worth it, they I will pay

And that's what I'm saying - IMO the quality of the service will increase if payment is required.

As it stands today, the only reason to pay is as a contribution to a cause. In that respect, I choose not to contribute to this particular cause.

Fair enough, it's your call. I'd suggest perhaps that again your failure to separate 'atheism' from 'skepticism' is blinding you to the good work done by the JREF in fighting against psychic frauds, etc. Personally, I think JREF membership is worth it even without a Forum, since somebody's got take on Sylvia Browne.

I give money to (some) christian charities not because I believe in their motives, but because I agree with their results. Perhaps you might find the ability to look beyond those parts of the JREF philosophy that you find unpalatable and see the results as being worth a contribution?

 

[Dymanic]

Originally posted by Christian

I submit to you, they do it because they believe there is no such authority.

The reason I find that so insulting right out of the gate is the dubious assumption it makes that Christians would actually score better than atheists on 'moral behavior' even if we agreed to measure both by Christian standards.

As for the validity of those standards themselves, the one thing most belief systems do not encourage is actually taking personal responsibility for wrestling with difficult questions about what is and what is not moral. Anyone who has actually shown up for that battle deserves some credit, even if the answers he comes up with aren't perfect.

But it may be that not everyone has the constitution to be a soldier in that cause. There are those who seem genuinely incapable of imagining what it would be like to have a set of moral standards of one's very own which, far from being cut in stone, required constant re-evaluation, and adherence to which was primarily self-enforced. If there really are such people, and the only thing that keeps them from running wild in the streets is the carrot-and-stick behavior modification methods of some primitive belief system, then persuading them to abandon that system might not be such a great idea (fortunately, it's practically impossible anyway).

 

[Christian]

Christian,

And that's what I'm saying - IMO the quality of the service will increase if payment is required.

And economics is well on your side on this one.

Fair enough, it's your call. I'd suggest perhaps that again your failure to separate 'atheism' from 'skepticism' is blinding you to the good work done by the JREF in fighting against psychic frauds, etc. Personally, I think JREF membership is worth it even without a Forum, since somebody's got take on Sylvia Browne.

I give money to (some) christian charities not because I believe in their motives, but because I agree with their results. Perhaps you might find the ability to look beyond those parts of the JREF philosophy that you find unpalatable and see the results as being worth a contribution?

This brings up a very interesting point. Something to ponder.