On Experiencing Jim Fetzer

[Vincent Vega]

I'm telling you, hardcore truthers, I call them 'source' theorists (or puppetmasters) display a form of mental illness that elevates their ego above any contrary facts. They may even function normally in every day life, (but even then I expect you would see some 'issues'). Even if a little voice in their head is telling them they are wrong, the ego voice drowns it out. We all experience this, like when we argue with our significant others about who lost the keys, or forgot to pay the phone bill. The difference is, the rational voice eventually wins out. For what ever reason these folks, the sourcers', rational voice is damaged. IMO Pretty much any serious truther over 30 can be considered 'emotionally damaged'.

As for the the 'followers of truthiness', most are just intellectually lazy. All have a profound ignorance of the technical subjects involved, and derive most of their ideas from 'source' truthers. Most truthers under the age of 30 fall into this catagory.

I find them facinating and disturbing at the same time.

 

[pomeroo]

I would like to know the point of no return as well. At what stage do you go 'Ok, this must be stupid, I mean I know the plane could not have flown over the pentagon and then secret groups planted the evidence, but hell Im sticking to my theory!'

or 'I saw the plane, thousands did as well but no, there were no planes on 9/11'

My brain fizzes out when I try to imagine the mindset. Its the same feeling I got when I was young when I did 'prayer' tests. I always had this voice in the back of my mind going 'maybe...er...um...naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....'

I seriously could not be bothered with the effort required for holding onto such a delusion. Imagine the stuff you have to constantly convince yourself of each day. You get no where. How do you learn new things thinking this way? Constantly argueing the facts of nature etc AARRRGH.........


Its one for psychology students.

What's so infuriating about Fetzer is his tactic of characterizing a wildly implausible hypothesis as something that has been "proven," or is "unquestionable." He's supposed to be a professor of philosophy, for cryin' out loud!

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

What's so infuriating about Fetzer is his tactic of characterizing a wildly implausible hypothesis as something that has been "proven," or is "unquestionable." He's supposed to be a professor of philosophy, for cryin' out loud!

It is the falsity of the OCT that has been proven, not the truth of any alternative theory. I suspect words to that effect are what Fetzer said, we'll see.

Bear in mind that with essentially unlimited funding, many things become possible. And however "implausible" you find "conspiracy theories" about 9/11, they are still preferable to the OCT, which is physically impossible.

 

[aggle-rithm]

It is the falsity of the OCT that has been proven, not the truth of any alternative theory. I suspect words to that effect are what Fetzer said, we'll see.

Bear in mind that with essentially unlimited funding, many things become possible. And however "implausible" you find "conspiracy theories" about 9/11, they are still preferable to the OCT, which is physically impossible.

As opposed to your magic, steel-dusting weapons?

I urge you to read Sharon Weinberger's book, "Imaginary Weapons". After reading that, I'm firmly convinced that the defense dept. is incapable of coming up with anything more advanced than a pea shooter.

Here's how it works: A wacko, fringe scientist comes up with an idea for a crazy new weapon, like energy beams or antimatter or hafnium bombs. The rest of the scientific community says, "No, this isn't possible," and back up their claims with physics calculations and experimentation. (For instance, it doesn't take long to calculate that it would take hundreds of years, using all the particle accellerators in the world, to create enough antimatter to illuminate a light bulb.)

The defense dept., unable to understand all this math and science, says, "It looks like a difference of opinion. Let's pay the wacko fringe scientist millions of dollars and see what he can come up with."

The defense dept. thus creates a ready market for wacko fringe scientists. Some are probably con artists, but some appear to be almost as deluded as you are, TS1234.

 

[rwguinn]

What's so infuriating about Fetzer is his tactic of characterizing a wildly implausible hypothesis as something that has been "proven," or is "unquestionable." He's supposed to be a professor of philosophy, for cryin' out loud!

What we have is what I call "the Wishful thinking syndrome", or, as Adam of "Mythbusters" says--"I reject your reality and insert my own". It affects philosophers, Liberal Arts professors, and elected officials of all stripes-and is contageous. There is no cure, but an extremely effective vaccine is available. I call it "a firm grounding in the scientific method"

 

[Lurker]

Bear in mind that with essentially unlimited funding, many things become possible.

So this allows you to come up with ANY idea and apply it to 911 and say it is possible? Hmm.......not very scientific of you.

And however "implausible" you find "conspiracy theories" about 9/11, they are still preferable to the OCT, which is physically impossible.

Why is is physically impossible? I see no laws of physics broken, do you? Your steel dustification theory has no evidence behind it whatsoever. Please perform a lab experiment where you dustify steel. In my years as a mechanical engineer with a modicum of material knowledge I have yet to hear of this phenomenon.

Lurker

 

[pomeroo]

It is the falsity of the OCT that has been proven, not the truth of any alternative theory. I suspect words to that effect are what Fetzer said, we'll see.

No, Ace, lies and debunked nonsense do not constitute "proof."

Bear in mind that with essentially unlimited funding, many things become possible. And however "implausible" you find "conspiracy theories" about 9/11, they are still preferable to the OCT, which is physically impossible.

You have had your head handed to you every time you have babbled this pap about physical impossibilities. The real scientists don't agree with your puerile fabrications.

Incidentally, 80% of the steel was not missing. You were peddling falsehoods.

 

[aggle-rithm]

What we have is what I call "the Wishful thinking syndrome", or, as Adam of "Mythbusters" says--"I reject your reality and insert my own". It affects philosophers, Liberal Arts professors, and elected officials of all stripes-and is contageous. There is no cure, but an extremely effective vaccine is available. I call it "a firm grounding in the scientific method"

That's "I reject your reality and substitute my own."

Yes, I'm a nerd. Want to fight about it?!?

 

[JimBenArm]

That's "I reject your reality and substitute my own."

Yes, I'm a nerd. Want to fight about it?!?

Oooo! Slap fight!

 

[rwguinn]

That's "I reject your reality and substitute my own."

Yes, I'm a nerd. Want to fight about it?!?

Pocket protectors at 20 paces! High midnight, on Main Street.

One too many pain pills.
You are absorootly right. I went totally blank when I was typing that particular word. I knew I had something wrong, but couldn't figure out what.
Probably Lisa's fault...

 

[Gravy]

That's "I reject your reality and substitute my own."

I so wanted to say that to Fetzer, but didn't squeeze it in. If Fetzer were involved in all of them, it would take approximately 100 Hardfire shows to make the points that could be made in one show, uninterrupted.

 

[Loss Leader]

Bear in mind that with essentially unlimited funding, many things become possible.

Like this very valuable power source.


Although I'm told that this weapon can be pieced together out of spare parts during Chief Tyrol's off hours.

Be especially wary of this ship as its carbon-composite skin makes it almost invisible to DRADIS.

 

[pomeroo]

I so wanted to say that to Fetzer, but didn't squeeze it in. If Fetzer were involved in all of them, it would take approximately 100 Hardfire shows to make the points that could be made in one show, uninterrupted.

That's what was so frustrating. I'd think of a topic we hadn't yet covered--Fetzer's idiotic claim that $2.3 trillion dollars was somehow missing from the Pentagon--and then I'd reflect that he'd simply maintain his fantasy against all logic and evidence.

When Fetzer pretends that no commercial airliner hit the Pentagon, you'll hear Mark read quotes from the eyewitnesses and ask about the charred bodies still strapped to their seats. No visible effect. Everybody is lying.

It's the method Ace uses to dispose of thousands of tons of recovered steel piled high at the storage sites. Everybody is lying.

Sonny Liston: "You don't want to fight crazy people."

 

[jhunter1163]

I can't wait to have the Jimi Fetzer Experience. Sounds like a good time was had by all. Except possibly Fetzer.

 

[aggle-rithm]

I can't wait to have the Jimi Fetzer Experience. Sounds like a good time was had by all. Except possibly Fetzer.

I'm sure he had a good time, too. As far as I can tell, he's never happier than when he's distorting reality. It sounds like he was provided with lots of reality to distort.

 

[pomeroo]

I'm sure he had a good time, too. As far as I can tell, he's never happier than when he's distorting reality. It sounds like he was provided with lots of reality to distort.

I'm sure there are rationalists who are wondering if Mark won the debate. Obviously, you'll have to judge for yourselves, but the words of an economics professor I had when the world was young strike me as pertinent: "You will occasionally meet someone who points at the noonday sun and remarks that the moon is very full and bright. You won't win a debate with that man."

 

[PhantomWolf]

I'm sure he had a good time, too. As far as I can tell, he's never happier than when he's distorting reality. It sounds like he was provided with lots of reality to distort.

Hmmm, I wonder if we can somehow use woo to develop a functioning Warp Drive.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Excellent opening post in this thread, pomeroo. I especially liked the way you described the "short-circuiting" that is apparent in the minds of people such as Jim Fetzer and Ace Baker, and I liked your flow chart which explains the way in which rational minds operate in comparison to theirs.

It was funny, in a way, to see Ace Baker go on to demonstrate that short-circuiting in the thread itself, especially when he completely ignored Gravy's picture of the black smoke coming from the rubble:

Now Gravy, why don't you try this question on for me:

If there were really "fires" burning in the rubble for 100 days, why was the "smoke" bluish-white, when the smoke from the office fires was black?

You got me there. We all know that the so-called "fires in the piles" were started each day at noon by ironworkers and operating engineers who were cooking lunch.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/87904626d31b234d0.jpg[/qimg]

ETA: Here is one of the things that the 40,000 people who worked on them called "piles." You and I know better, right, TS?
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[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/87904626d477b15b2.jpg[/qimg]
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Dr. Greening, good to see you around. I'll try asking you this question for the fourth time:

If "fires" burned for 100 days in the rubble, why is the "smoke" bluish-white, when the smoke from the office fires was black?

Ron, it's simple. I'm saying that the official reports are lying. It would have been so easy. Where's the evidence for all of this steel that was supposedly shipped to China?

Ace, where's the evidence that the official reports are lying?
Where are the whistleblowers?
Where are the anomalous emails, the clandestine meetings or messages on answering machines, the blood money?
Where's the evidence of a cover-up?
Who's covering up the cover-up?
Who's covering up for the people who are covering up the cover-up?
Who's covering up for the people who are covering up for the people who are covering up the cover-up?
Who's covering up for the people who are covering up for the people who are covering up for the people who are covering up the cover-up? Ad infinitum.
Where does it all end?
Or are you using Circular Reasoning?

My DVD collection of "Remington Steele" episodes has been sitting idle in a box for about 2 years...and they're filthy. That's the ONLY dustified Steele that I'm aware of. Then again, I'm not a scientist...just a guy with poor taste in television shows.

Myriad, you've made a great contribution to this thread.



What I wished, upon starting to read the OP, was that we had a resident expert in abnormal psychology at this forum. We could learn a lot. In absence of one, some great comments have been made in this thread about psychology by Stellafane, agglerithm, and again, pomeroo.

Very, very good! It is possible that the practice of always employing specious, hole-riddled arguments deadens them to the possibility that an argument can be sound.

I'm sure he had a good time, too. As far as I can tell, he's never happier than when he's distorting reality. It sounds like he was provided with lots of reality to distort.

It would be fascinating to learn what an expert in abnormal psychology could teach us about this "disorder". Things like what neurotransmitters are malfunctioning, what's being inhibited or overproduced, and how, in general, and in detail, psychology can explain such a stubborn fixation on the impossible.

 

[pomeroo]

Thanks for the compliments, orphia nay. Ace's contributions to this thread exceeded my most optimistic expectations.

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

It was funny, in a way, to see Ace Baker go on to demonstrate that short-circuiting in the thread itself, especially when he completely ignored Gravy's picture of the black smoke coming from the rubble:

Here's some smoke evidence I was going by:

OK? Bluish-White "smoke" all over the place. I've never seen that black smoke picture of Gravy's, I don't know if we trust the date, but it doesn't matter.It's very small compared to this gallery I just provided. What black smoke?