OMG, a policy difference between Barack and Hillary? Gasp!

[corplinx]

One day holiday vs. three month holiday... Oil vs. notebooks... Yeah, that comparison works real good.

Daredelvis

Krugman doesn't make that distinction as you would know if you read that arguement.

The McCain/Clinton gas tax proposal comes too late for that. So it's Econ 101: the tax cut really goes to the oil companies.

He might be right on a long term gas tax cut during a period when demand is high and supply is capped. However, he is absolutely wrong on a one day holiday. Krugman is more partisan than economist and some people seem to think its vice versa.

 

[daredelvis]

Krugman doesn't make that distinction as you would know if you read that arguement.



He might be right on a long term gas tax cut during a period when demand is high and supply is capped. However, he is absolutely wrong on a one day holiday. Krugman is more partisan than economist and some people seem to think its vice versa.

You mean the argument where he asks?

"Why doesn't cutting the gas tax this summer make sense?

All talk of a holiday is of a summer long holiday. Also it is of gas, not notebooks. If you can't see the distinction, I can't help you.

So it's pointless, not evil. But it is pointless, and disappointing.

Truer words never spoken,

Daredelvis

 

[BPSCG]

A little OT, but...

I don't personally think nuclear power is a left/right issue, is it???

I said "tree huggers," not leftists - though there is considerable overlap in those two sets. But in any case, no, it's not a left/right issue any more, now that the left/tree huggers can't afford gas even for their Priuses. So why aren't we building nuclear plants as fast as we build Starbuckses?

 

[corplinx]

All talk of a holiday is of a summer long holiday.

He mentions the McCain holiday by name, which was a one day proposal. I am sorry that you are intractable over being flat wrong.

 

[The Painter]

I steal my gas from the guy next-door. He just thinks he's getting crappy mileage.

 

[T.A.M.]

I said "tree huggers," not leftists - though there is considerable overlap in those two sets. But in any case, no, it's not a left/right issue any more, now that the left/tree huggers can't afford gas even for their Priuses. So why aren't we building nuclear plants as fast as we build Starbuckses?

Cuz yer too buzy buildin dem der "huntin-fishin-drinkin" stores.

TAM

 

[corplinx]

Cuz yer too buzy buildin dem der "huntin-fishin-drinkin" stores.

TAM

Ah yes, Bass Pro Shops. Its like a Bloomingdales for rednecks.

 

[geni]

Heh. Price and supply inelasticity only work one way. People will demand and use the same amount of gas no matter how much or how little it costs. Taxes don't influence consumer behavior.

[/sarcasm]

Actualy in the case of petrol this would pretty much appear to be the case up to at least $2 per liter.

 

[Puppycow]

Obama is correct, and my respect for Krugman is increased. Of course, he has no choice for the sake of his own credibility.

I've heard some boneheaded gas-tax ideas, like one by Charles Krauthammer to essentially fix the price of gas by setting an adjustable tax that would tax the difference between some arbitrary desired price (such as $4.00) and the actual sales price. I.e. if the price is $2, the tax is $2, and if the price is $3, the tax is $1. Naturally every gas station would then set their price at exactly $4, and the tax would be 0.

 

[Puppycow]

He mentions the McCain holiday by name, which was a one day proposal. I am sorry that you are intractable over being flat wrong.

Problems with a one-day proposal:

1) Think of the lines for gas on that day (and all the time and gas wasted idling in line)
2) It will even out in the following weeks/months (supplies become tighter)

 

[daredelvis]

He mentions the McCain holiday by name, which was a one day proposal. I am sorry that you are intractable over being flat wrong.

Jeezzz, I was just going by McCain's own words.

I propose that the federal government suspend all taxes on gasoline now paid by the American people -- from Memorial Day to Labor Day of this year. The effect will be an immediate economic stimulus -- taking a few dollars off the price of a tank of gas every time a family, a farmer, or trucker stops to fill up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/us/politics/15text-mccain.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

Sorry (but not surprised) you have an intractable position over a proposal that you either don't understand, or did not read.

Daredelvis

 

[Puppycow]

Tom Friedman makes a pretty good argument against this proposal.

It is great to see that we finally have some national unity on energy policy. Unfortunately, the unifying idea is so ridiculous, so unworthy of the people aspiring to lead our nation, it takes your breath away. Hillary Clinton has decided to line up with John McCain in pushing to suspend the federal excise tax on gasoline, 18.4 cents a gallon, for this summer’s travel season. This is not an energy policy. This is money laundering: we borrow money from China and ship it to Saudi Arabia and take a little cut for ourselves as it goes through our gas tanks. What a way to build our country.

When the summer is over, we will have increased our debt to China, increased our transfer of wealth to Saudi Arabia and increased our contribution to global warming for our kids to inherit.
. . .
Are you sitting down?

Few Americans know it, but for almost a year now, Congress has been bickering over whether and how to renew the investment tax credit to stimulate investment in solar energy and the production tax credit to encourage investment in wind energy. The bickering has been so poisonous that when Congress passed the 2007 energy bill last December, it failed to extend any stimulus for wind and solar energy production. Oil and gas kept all their credits, but those for wind and solar have been left to expire this December. I am not making this up. At a time when we should be throwing everything into clean power innovation, we are squabbling over pennies.

These credits are critical because they ensure that if oil prices slip back down again — which often happens — investments in wind and solar would still be profitable. That’s how you launch a new energy technology and help it achieve scale, so it can compete without subsidies.

The Democrats wanted the wind and solar credits to be paid for by taking away tax credits from the oil industry. President Bush said he would veto that. Neither side would back down, and Mr. Bush — showing not one iota of leadership — refused to get all the adults together in a room and work out a compromise. Stalemate.

 

[corplinx]

Sorry (but not surprised) you have an intractable position over a proposal that you either don't understand, or did not read.

Daredelvis

I'm not intractable. You provided the evidence that flatly contradicts what I thought was correct. Now here is the part where I say "oops, my bad".

 

[ZenFountain]

The federal excise tax on gasoline goes directly into a highway trust fund (not the general revenue), with 84% of that revenue being used for federal highways. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that less revenue into the highway fund means that we're just dumping the ongoing cost of road maintenance and new construction into a later date. The gas tax is one of the few examples of a federal tax that works and scales as intended for the most part. Of course, at this stage in the game with the stakes so high, politicians might promise us all free beer and hot wings in some kind of voodoo economic scheme.

 

[T.A.M.]

I heard Hillary is offering free whiskey shots with every purchase of a fire arm...as long as the seller is associated with a church.

TAM

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

The more I find out about this policy the worse and worse it sounds.

What's even worse than the actual policy is her plan to pay for it, which involves using the same money that she already said she would use to fund alternative energy development...

 

[chipmunk stew]

The more I find out about this policy the worse and worse it sounds.

What's even worse than the actual policy is her plan to pay for it, which involves using the same money that she already said she would use to fund alternative energy development...

And which would guarantee that the oil companies increase the pre-tax price to compensate.

At least with McCain's proposal, you might get a couple weeks of cheap gas before the price drifted back up. A driver might actually save a couple bucks (which he'd end up paying later, once the tax was reintroduced.)