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oldest writing yet found

alwayscurious

New Blood
Joined
Mar 24, 2004
Messages
4
Has anyone heard about the "Ahora Covenant Inscription"? Apparently it is the oldest example of the oldest form of writing known, located a few years ago near the base of Mt Ararat in Turkey. Can anyone add to this?
 
The latest translation seems to indicate it was authored by an art critic about a cave painting exhibit. Unfortunately neither the artist nor the critics name survived as this magazine had 1 issue. The publication folded after the management realized the cost of circulation of a slab of rock was prohibitive..

apologies to Mel Brooks.
 
Never heard of it. A google search for "Ahora Covenant Inscription" turns up some fundi sites. Take a look.
 
What I found wasn't too impressive. Forty one links returned in all by google. The number one problem is that they only give a single picture of this thing, and what they say it means. Nothing to show that it's an actually inscription, and not just a random scratching of lines which they decided to assign meaning to.
 
Looks like the inside of my math binder...


Seriously, though, how do we know this isn't just some caveman's doodles?
 
alwayscurious said:
anyone else have anything to add before I jump in with both feet?
alwayscurious,

First, welcome to the forum. I hope you'll stay around long enough to learn what the forum is all about and to find out what JREF is all about. I also hope you won't be disappointed by what I predict will happen here, if you proceed with this approach. This forum is a skeptics forum. You will be asked to provide evidence. You will find the questions will continue and will probe deeply into the Ahora Covenant Inscription claim. This may end up frustrating you, we'll go through some screaming matches and you will disappear after piling on accusations of closed-mindedness. If you continue in this vein.

It doesn't have to be this way. I hope you will not view the questions as being directed at you personally. I hope you will also take the time to think about them carefully and considerately. Please don't lapse into the subject/motive shift fallacy as you do so. The motives here are simple: to understand and to get to the truth about various claims.

One of the first things you will be called upon to do is to present solid research papers. Those papers must be vetted through the peer-review process. We will be expecting evidence from respected, peer-reviewed archaelogy and archaeolinguistics journals, and we will accept nothing less. We will expect to see evidence that the tablet was given to other research teams to corroborate or refute claims about it. We expect to see the papers that resulted from that scientific sharing and intersubjective validation process. We expect that those papers, too, were published in peer-reviewed scientific journals.

You can set the tone for this discourse by backing away from what looks, to this observer at least, like a classic troll. It is my hope that was not your intent, but look at your two posts from an outsider's perspective. With no prior participation in other threads, you begin one with an ostensible information-gathering question. But your very next post belies the first. Now you say you are about to "jump in with both feet." This isn't the type of post that will gain respect here. Neither is it the type of post to set the tone for a reasonable exchange.

So please do continue this in a genuine manner. Don't come in here thinking you are a wolf in sheep's clothing; you are more likely than not to come off as an irrational sheep in sheep's clothing. Come in here for a dialogue and with a willingness to listen considerately to what critical thinking is all about. Present evidence, please, and recognize the high standards of evidence that critical thinking requires.

Again, welcome to the forum.
 
Bill: With all due respect, we don't yet know what alwayscurious's opinion is yet.

It could be for or against. It could be anything. Yes I know that people demand papers and stuff, however posters are allowed to post opinions on the understanding that they may get pulled apart.

That's one of the differences between this board and the truly closed minded boards, we let people say what they will within the rules of the forum and discuss. They can at least have some confidence in the knowledge that they will not be banned for their opinion or ideas alone.

Let's try not to appear too intimidating?

:)
 
Reginald said:
Bill: With all due respect, we don't yet know what alwayscurious's opinion is yet.

It could be for or against. It could be anything. Yes I know that people demand papers and stuff, however posters are allowed to post opinions on the understanding that they may get pulled apart.

That's one of the differences between this board and the truly closed minded boards, we let people say what they will within the rules of the forum and discuss. They can at least have some confidence in the knowledge that they will not be banned for their opinion or ideas alone.

Let's try not to appear too intimidating?

:)
Reginald,

My intent was not to intimidate. If I am wrong about those first two posts, I will apologize. However, they follow a classic pattern, as I stated in my post. I would be most happy to discuss any evidence about the tablet. I would also be happy to have a/c be a regular contributor to this forum. Her next dozen posts will tell.
 
BillHoyt said:

I also hope you won't be disappointed by what I predict will happen here, if you proceed with this approach.


Are you future predicting skills supposed to impress anybody?


This forum is a skeptics forum.


What part of:

"intelligent discussions with both skeptics and non-skeptics from around the globe"

don't you get?


You will be asked to provide evidence.


You've been asked, many many times.


We expect that those papers, too, were published in peer-reviewed scientific journals.


Yeah, like the skeptical inquirer, skeptic, or skepticreport. ;)


But your very next post belies the first. Now you say you are about to "jump in with both feet." This isn't the type of post that will gain respect here. Neither is it the type of post to set the tone for a reasonable exchange.


S'ir, the only type of posts that gain respect here are when someone calls other posters kaffe klatch balloon woo woo tse tse flies, s'ir.
 
BillHoyt said:

Reginald,

My intent was not to intimidate. If I am wrong about those first two posts, I will apologize. However, they follow a classic pattern, as I stated in my post. I would be most happy to discuss any evidence about the tablet. I would also be happy to have a/c be a regular contributor to this forum. Her next dozen posts will tell.

You delivered a horrendous bitch-slapping. Additionally, it doesn't matter whose being a regular contributor makes you happy. Doesn't matter at all. You're not the doorman, you're not the host.

My answer to alwayscurious: yes, I've heard of it (recently) but know nothing about it.
 
wow

What more can I say, so I'll just say it again: wow. What a welcome. Nothing like knocking on a door, getting belted with a bucket of boiling oil by the invitee, and then "welcome". I can only hope to imagine what the less articulate here do to visitors. And, for the record, I am a guy.

Thanks to the non-hosts here who have been truly inviting and thought provoking.

Additionally, I take offense at the troll comment. Man, what a welcome! The "jump in" remark that stung so much was simply referring to the fact that it was my first post in these forums, and I was looking forward a bit. Get it now? Sorry I was so obtuse.

As for your requirements regarding the inscription, I am here asking questions, seeking feedback from people suposedly as curious and open minded as I am -- not submitting a dissertation to an exam board. Do your own damn research if the inscription interests you.

(stepping off soapbox now...)
 
Ahem. Not a bitch slapping, just an observation. And it is stated that we are open minded to any opinions, and as of yet there are none on the original poster's posts, and I thought the original poster was looking for evidence/opinions before posting her own.


Thus, alwayscurious has posted on a subject I have never heard of. I'm thankful for that, because I'm now curious.

I'm also curious of what was meant by "jumping in with both feet". I'm dying of curiousity. Please do jump in with both feet, and hands, and etc. You are most welcome to. I'd love to hear the outlook of someone who knew enough of the subject to bring it up.

I have no time to look things up, so I'm most interested in anything else that is posted here after a good look into the subject.
 
Re: wow

alwayscurious said:

As for your requirements regarding the inscription, I am here asking questions, seeking feedback from people suposedly as curious and open minded as I am -- not submitting a dissertation to an exam board. Do your own damn research if the inscription interests you.

(stepping off soapbox now...)
Those weren't requirements regarding the inscription, a/c, they were requirements skeptics typically asking people making any claims about strange things.

I'm curious what about this claim intrigues you so. It looks like horse-pucky to me so far. Can you un-pucky it with any solid evidence?
 
inscrip1.gif


inscrip.gif


Something about sumerians?

interp2.gif



Is there any other example of sumerian stuff. This rock could be an example of knights in duels or something from my outlook :D

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgu...enant+Inscription&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

I'd say it is a map?:p The one thing looks clearly like a boat. So, go here in a boat, and walk here...


And that thing...supposedly coitis..could be a hill or something. I'd say the guy who said it was coitis has a dirty mind!

It's a hill/mountain, with a river, to lake.

Point being, it can be open to interpretation because how can you tell how old the writing is and maps are a good general marking post along a path.
 
Eos,

Sumerian writing was cuneiform, very regularized and very language-like. Here is a sample tablet:

sumerwriting.gif


More information on Sumerian.

[edited to add:

The closest thing to the "covenant" tablet might be Uruk, but that has the same columnar look to it.
]
 
Thank you! I'd say it is clearly different, but they are getting around it about post or somethingamajig. I'll go along and say what it is being touted as is bunk bunk bunk. Just my humble opinion.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Thank you! I'd say it is clearly different, but they are getting around it about post or somethingamajig. I'll go along and say what it is being touted as is bunk bunk bunk. Just my humble opinion.

I added a note to my post after you posted. The Uruk tablets also have this horizontal line / columnar look to them, quite unlike the "covenant" tablet.
 
From the photos Eos posted it looks as much like language or a map(a stone map, easy to carry, humans hadn't yet thought of writing on sheets of tree bark or leather.)as the Cydonian hill looks like a face. Its obviously about Noah, The Flood, or telling where to get golpher wood.
 

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