Oh, Mr. Science!

Another important point made here is that Tony Cicoria did not aquire some ability he had not had before. If he was changed, it was in the way that his interest changed focus, and he started using his, already existing, musical skills in a different way.

Exactly, which is why I wonder at anyone thinking this is a case of anything special at all, to any possible degree. Jeez... a former child musician gets struck by lightning, almost dies, and then spends 14 years pursuing his dream of performing in front of a crowd. That's a miracle? Supernatural? REALLY?!?! That's the stupidest thing I've heard all week!
 
Exactly, which is why I wonder at anyone thinking this is a case of anything special at all, to any possible degree. Jeez... a former child musician gets struck by lightning, almost dies, and then spends 14 years pursuing his dream of performing in front of a crowd. That's a miracle? Supernatural? REALLY?!?! That's the stupidest thing I've heard all week!
I'm glad I'm not the only one basically unimpressed by this story.
 
I will respond to the half-baked nonsense. It was a flippant write off to something that was not as simple as a quick simplified explanation. Something significant happened there.
Well, I'd say anytime someone survives being struck by lightening it is significant, but hardly "woo woo"/paranormal.
 
I seem to be the only person commenting here who has read anything more about this case than the linked newspaper article (some of you clearly haven't even read that at all carefully) – and you are all missing the point.

Nobody, including Tony Cicoria, is claiming there's anything remarkable about his musical abilities as a performer - the account by Oliver Sacks in Musicophilia is about Dr Cicoria's startling change in personality and behaviour following the lightning strike. Never having had any particular interest in any kind of classical music, he developed (very suddenly, a few weeks after the accident) a major musical obsession (which is just as strong after 14 years) – first a craving to listen to a particular genre of classical piano music, followed by equally strong drives to learn to play, and to compose (to record the music "playing in his head").
"suddenly, over two or three days", there was this insatiable desire to listen to piano music.

"I would get up at four in the morning and play till I went to work, and when I got home from work I was at the piano all evening.
...
I was possessed."


I'm not sure why people here think he was "returning to a pleasant pasttime he used to enjoy", or "a former child musician" - the article says nothing of the sort, and neither does Dr Sacks's book:
He had had a few piano lessons as a boy, he said, "but no real interest." He did not have a piano in his house. What music he did listen to tended to be rock music.
...
"I could hardly read the music, could barely play, but I started to teach myself."


The story may seem implausible to people who know nothing about neurology, but it really isn't. Read the paper in paximperium's link about cognitive and behavioural changes resulting from lightning strikes and electric shock. Quite profound changes are not unusual, and they don't necessarily occur immediately. I've just had a quick look at some other literature on this subject, and all of it discusses the brain function changes in terms of deficits only. But neurological damage can also produce a paradoxical heightening of specific abilities, or interests, or emotions (temporarily or permanently) - and that is very much Dr Sacks's field. I'm prepared to accept his judgement (barring future disconfirming evidence) that this is such a case.

Nothing supernatural about it, of course. As for whether it's 'mysterious', in neurological terms, it depends what you mean. There are quite a few recorded cases of similar phenomena, many relating to music and some of them very well studied, and in some of them the pathology is known (e.g. the site of a tumour, or of damage due to a stroke). This case fits well with the general literature on the subject (including some much better documented cases in Dr Sacks's book), but:
  1. It's particularly dramatic and newsworthy!
  2. There seems to have been no gross damage, and insufficient testing to detect more subtle damage, therefore we can't be completely certain of a neurological basis.
However, there's no doubt that the phenomenon (sudden 'musicophilia', sometimes with musical hallucinations, following brain damage) exists. Dr Sacks's judgement tells him it's the likely explanation in this case, and I'd say that, as a clinical neurologist of nearly 50 years' experience, with a special interest (and expertise) in this type of case, he's probably right. You know, when I am confronted with a statement or opinion from someone whose knowledge in the relevant scientific field is orders of magnitude greater than mine, my initial reaction is to learn rather than to dispute (and, unlike the 'debunkers' here, I have at least read all Dr Sacks's books and some of his papers, as well as other popular and more technical literature on the subject).

In fact, the 'debunking' tone of most the posts is quite inappropriate - why on earth does anyone want to debunk neurology??!!

chillzero and others seem to think that Dr Sacks's opinion is some hasty, ill-considered conjecture - again, not so. He conducted a very lengthy interview with Tony Cicoria – several hours at least (Cicoria says "all day") – far longer, no doubt, than Cicoria spent with the doctors who treated him after the accident. Dr Sacks doesn't explicitly say whether he had access to Cicoria's neurological test results (EEG, MRI) from the time of the accident 12 years previously, but he mentions briefly that they didn't show any significant abnormality. He suggested further investigations, with newer brain function tests that are capable of detecting more subtle lesions, but Cicoria was unwilling (my guess is that, as we know he considers his musicophilia to be 'spiritual', he doesn't want any physical basis to be discovered).

I suggest that, before anyone else ventures an opinion on the interest and significance (or otherwise) of the case, or of Dr Sacks's expertise and qualifications to hypothesise on it, you inform yourself of the necessary minimum of facts.

It's a shame no-one seems interested in discussing the science of the case – this thread would have done much better in Science and Medicine.
 
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Nothing supernatural about it, of course.
Agreed.

As it is, with the exception of Mayday, we all seem to be in agreement there is nothing paranormal/supernatural here.

However, there's no doubt that the phenomenon (sudden 'musicophilia', sometimes with musical hallucinations, following brain damage) exists.
There is no doubt that Sacks wrote a book entitled "Musicophilia: Tales of Music and the Brain".

However as far as I can tell this is not a term of diagnoses, he has not conducted documented clinical studies, nor has he submitted any type of peer review material.

If you wish to debate Sacks and his work, perhaps a new thread would be in order.
 
The story may seem implausible to people who know nothing about neurology

No, the whole point is that we don't find it implausible in the slightest. Mayday is a well known poster here with a rather bizzare perception of reality that includes all kinds of magical things like seperate minds and bodies, psychics, wooish NDEs and so on. She presented this case as an example of something that can't possibly be explained by science, and everyone else has pointed out that it's really not that unsual or remarkable at all. I have no idea where you're reaction to this has come from, but it is clear you have no idea about the history of the posters involved here. No-one, other than Mayday, is pretending to know things they don't or denying science in any way.
 
I have to be on my way to work right now, but I will get to you later. I wish I had more time to stay here. Unfortunately, all I can get in right now is bits and pieces.

I will respond to the half-baked nonsense. It was a flippant write off to something that was not as simple as a quick simplified explanation. Something significant happened there.
Mayday must work one heck of a long shift....
 
Mayday's threads would be more fun if she didn't disappear when her logic got shot down. I was looking forward to her reasoning when her psychic failed to perform, but she found a way around that by simply not going.
 
True Marcus...but that is her MO and is typical of many "woo woo'ers"; run away when pressed to provide credible proof, or when confronted with logic that refutes, their campfire claims.
 
True Marcus...but that is her MO and is typical of many "woo woo'ers"; run away when pressed to provide credible proof, or when confronted with logic that refutes, their campfire claims.

Well its hard for them to change their minds, sometimes. ;)

I can sort of understand that as part of the human condition really, where in admiting to the error in their view of reality they have to change a personal opinion.
This is often IMO, part of the social network these folks enjoy and that the disruption entailed by taking a sceptic POV means that they might be at odds with their peers (as in "peer presure")

I've fallen out quite badly with at least two of my formerly very close buddies simply because I changed my mind on these matters (somewhat thanks to you guys..hey, thanks!).

Until that happened I thought that my POV would be respected in what is often described as an "open minded" mindset .

What I found was that the reaction was one of hostility and comdemnation.:(

This genuinely shocked me as to how some of my formerly loving and caring friends became petty, smallminded bigots with little prompting, just through me changing my mind.

So for some, not addressing these issues discussed here has perhaps wider implications socially sometimes.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not defending woo at all, just outlining that for some, the road can be difficult to reality, as it in part , was for me.

However whether Mayday has been here long enough to know better, is a different story..........:D
 
If you want to get Mayday to disappear ask her about any of the amazing things she claimed she was going to do or test, not least of which was visit her pet psychic who she thinks is amazing/doesn't believe in/is sceptical about/just can't explain/can't afford to go to (delete according to which argument Mayday is trying to win at the time).

Mayday is also, let's not forget, a nasty little witch who has been abusive to posters in the past and jumped on totally inappropriate threads to talk about her alltime favourite subject - herself.

I have absolutely NO patience for Mayday - she barely even qualifies as a troll any more.
 
If you want to get Mayday to disappear ask her about any of the amazing things she claimed she was going to do or test, not least of which was visit her pet psychic who she thinks is amazing/doesn't believe in/is sceptical about/just can't explain/can't afford to go to (delete according to which argument Mayday is trying to win at the time).

Mayday is also, let's not forget, a nasty little witch who has been abusive to posters in the past and jumped on totally inappropriate threads to talk about her alltime favourite subject - herself.

I have absolutely NO patience for Mayday - she barely even qualifies as a troll any more.

Speaking as "Roadcreep," (her pet name for me), my only thought is that in order to be a troll, she ought to have at least been interesting or funny. She's neither. If anything, some of what she's claiming she's doing is downright frightening.

For example, she's an anti-vaxer. She claims - at least, I hope it's merely a claim - that instead of using an actual vaccine in young children, she's using a saline solution in the hopes of saving their lives. (She says she's an RN, or at least in school to become an RN.) Never mind the risks involved are miniscule, or more to the point, that scientific evidence shows the efficacy of vaccination, she's right, the doctors, researchers, FDA, WHO, and everyone else is WRONG. Bear in mind that this requires falsification of documentation, and there will never be any way to figure out where an infected child wasn't vaccinated, or more to the point, where a child became infected with a disease they were supposed to be protected against. She points to the same old saw that a child carries Mom's antibodies, and that ought to be enough.

Except, (and bear in mind, I'm just a busted-up mutt trucker, here, without any medical training), from what I understand, Mom's protection for the crumb crunchers ends around six months of age. This means from six months on, the kids are pretty much on their own. Last time I checked, nature bats last.

Then consider her rants about family members who've done better than her in their lives, her attacks against other board members (previously mentioned), and her general antipathy to such minor matters as facts, ethics, reality, evidence, and, well, you get the picture. Mayday isn't so much a troll as an intellectual thug with a small amount of authority from her medical training, (assuming she's telling us the truth, and that's hard to say, because it's Mayday saying it.)
 
Not just frightening, but dangerous.

Again, I urge people to read the article I posted a link to in post #56.
 

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