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Official James Comey testimony thread

CapelDodger said:
I may have missed a plot-twist here : is Trump now saying that Comey is telling the truth?
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:D Trump doesn't seem to be able to hold two concepts in his head at one time.

That little detail slipped past him as he spun his "I'm great" fantasy.

This sentence was particularly telling: "...and who knows—uh, I think his story may have changed. I mean, you'll have to take a look at that, because then he has to tell what actually took place at the events."

You'll have to take a look at that? :sdl:

I like NewsWeek's take: WATCH TRUMP EXPLAIN WHY HE SENT COMEY-TAPES TWEET AND SEE IF YOU UNDERSTAND (WE DON'T)
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
The interview with trump was hilarious. When the interviewer suggested the hint at tapes existing might have been a clever way for Trump to assure Comey was honest, Trump commented about how smart he is. :p
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And don't forget Trump claimed that the ploy worked and implied that Comey lied. Trump's answer to every question seems to be all of the above regardless of the options.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You'll have to take a look at that? :sdl:
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I know, words fail, don't they? And not for the reason they fail Trump.

We know what Comey's story was to start with, because he circulated it in an unclassified memo at the time. When Comey said "I hope there are tapes" his sincerity was unfaked. I hope there are recordings and that they come out. Mueller's going to need convincing that there aren't. Another self-inficted Trump wound.
 
@ Emily's Cat. Has Trump's subsequent behaviour altered your scepticism about his motives?
 
Emily's Cat said:
His motives - no.
His intelligence - no.

I already think he's an idiot. I just don't think he's an evil-mastermind-idiot.
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I know that I have said that one shouldn't take any of Trump's statements on their own as evidence of anything beyond Trump saying them, but he has said that he was trying to influence Comey's actions, "keeping him honest" - really?.
 
jimbob said:
I know that I have said that one shouldn't take any of Trump's statements on their own as evidence of anything beyond Trump saying them, but he has said that he was trying to influence Comey's actions, "keeping him honest" - really?.
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I don't think he actually thinks ahead about pretty much anything. He invents his reality after the fact.

My personal opinion is that he made the tapes comment as a threat, just not in the way it was interpreted. I think he though that Comey might have tapes of their discussion, and he was threatening Comey that if Comey had tapes Trump would be pissed off. What that would accomplish, I don't know. But I don't think he intended it to be a threat that Trump had tapes that he might share. It's the same kind of "wiretapping" idiocy. All of this "keeping him honest" stuff is post-hoc rationalization from someone who doesn't currently seem capable of planning ahead.

Roger Ramjets said:
I agree. Trump only thinks he is a 'mastermind'. But it's still dangerous when combined with 'evil' and 'idiot' - perhaps even more so than if he was an actual mastermind.
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I don't think he's evil. I think he's foolish, short-sighted, and bombastic. I also think there's a reasonably high likelihood of mental decline at play.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I don't think he actually thinks ahead about pretty much anything. He invents his reality after the fact.

My personal opinion is that he made the tapes comment as a threat, just not in the way it was interpreted. I think he though that Comey might have tapes of their discussion, and he was threatening Comey that if Comey had tapes Trump would be pissed off. What that would accomplish, I don't know. But I don't think he intended it to be a threat that Trump had tapes that he might share. It's the same kind of "wiretapping" idiocy. All of this "keeping him honest" stuff is post-hoc rationalization from someone who doesn't currently seem capable of planning ahead.



I don't think he's evil. I think he's foolish, short-sighted, and bombastic. I also think there's a reasonably high likelihood of mental decline at play.
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It depends on your view of evil. He's amoral, so it's a moot point.

I agree that mental decline is meaning that he is no longer attempting to hide his fundamental character, but I see little evidence that he was ever anything other than amoral.
 
jimbob said:
It depends on your view of evil. He's amoral, so it's a moot point.

I agree that mental decline is meaning that he is no longer attempting to hide his fundamental character, but I see little evidence that he was ever anything other than amoral.
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As an atheist, I've noticed that lots of people think I'm downright immoral, not just amoral. I tend to judge people base don their actions, rather than their motivations. And while there've been a handful of heavily publicized events that I would consider unethical, I haven't seen anything that suggests he's on the whole any more or less ethical than any other businessman or politician.

Just a lot dumber.
 
Emily's Cat said:
As an atheist, I've noticed that lots of people think I'm downright immoral, not just amoral. I tend to judge people base don their actions, rather than their motivations.
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Morality is belief systems based on ideology, often (usually?) religious.

The thing about that is that there can be things which are judged immoral under one belief system which are not under another. (Divorce comes to mind as an example. As does miscegenation.)

But if you are an atheist then the default assumption by all those religious groups is that you don't subscribe to any of their moralities. And they do tend to share quite a few features among them.

And while there've been a handful of heavily publicized events that I would consider unethical, I haven't seen anything that suggests he's on the whole any more or less ethical than any other businessman or politician.

Just a lot dumber.
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I can't agree with that. Trump has been caught at a lot more unethical behaviors than the average businessman has ever even contemplated trying to pull off.

And those are just the ones he hasn't gotten away with.
 
quadraginta said:
Morality is belief systems based on ideology, often (usually?) religious.

The thing about that is that there can be things which are judged immoral under one belief system which are not under another. (Divorce comes to mind as an example. As does miscegenation.)

But if you are an atheist then the default assumption by all those religious groups is that you don't subscribe to any of their moralities. And they do tend to share quite a few features among them.
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I believe their assumptions are flawed ;)

quadraginta said:
I can't agree with that. Trump has been caught at a lot more unethical behaviors than the average businessman has ever even contemplated trying to pull off.
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I dunno though - I don't think he's been caught at that many more, nor that they're that much more unethical. Given some of the financial disasters and massive cases of fraud in my lifetime, he kinda seems like a small fry in a big lake full of really nasty goop. Not that he's a great guy, not even close. Just not really that much worse than anyone else.

Just a lot dumber.

quadraginta said:
And those are just the ones he hasn't gotten away with.
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Do you think he's smart enough to get away with much that hasn't been caught?
 
Emily's Cat said:
I believe their assumptions are flawed ;)



I dunno though - I don't think he's been caught at that many more, nor that they're that much more unethical. Given some of the financial disasters and massive cases of fraud in my lifetime, he kinda seems like a small fry in a big lake full of really nasty goop. Not that he's a great guy, not even close. Just not really that much worse than anyone else.

Just a lot dumber.


Do you think he's smart enough to get away with much that hasn't been caught?
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If it was just one field, Emily's Cat might have a point, Trump *could* just be a highly dishonest businessman.

However we know that it's deeply ingrained into all his observed behaviours. If he had NPD that would explain it, but for some reason it's unethical for psychiatrists to make that observation.
 
jimbob said:
If it was just one field, Emily's Cat might have a point, Trump *could* just be a highly dishonest businessman.

However we know that it's deeply ingrained into all his observed behaviours. If he had NPD that would explain it, but for some reason it's unethical for psychiatrists to make that observation.
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NPD = narcissistic personality disorder?

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