Offer to the Truth Movement: Let's Settle It

Let me summarize the quite easy complete beatdown i have administered to you official lie slurpers.

4.All transponders were turned off on all flights

Wrong. UA Flt 175 had its transponder on the entire time.

It's easy to be wrong when you don't check the facts and know what you're talking about.

ETA: I knew I should have read further before posting (I think you rankled me with your "superior" attitude), as I now see that many have also noticed this glaring error of yours. At least I am in good company.
 
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This may be true, but I don't think anyone can say what Hanjour pulled off was easy. There's still the matter of the 320-degree turn he had to pull off while descending 7,000 feet.


There's absolutely nothing difficult about losing altitude while banking. In fact, you don't have to do a damn thing except bank the plane.

I'm not a pilot either. But as I understand it, the 320 degree turn, while possible, is quite difficult...


You're ignoring turning radius. The smaller the radius, the more difficult. The larger the radius, the less difficult. This has been addressed elsewhere, I'm sure.

...but most difficult would be pulling the plane out of the descent to fly horizontal only a few feet above the ground.


You're assuming that Flight 77 came out of the turn "a few feet above the ground", which is just plain wrong. Witness accounts put the plane high enough to pass over the Navy annex and a nearby tower.
 
What's the obsession with the number of degrees in the turn AA77 did? A friggen supertanker can do a 320 degree turn.
 
What's the obsession with the number of degrees in the turn AA77 did? A friggen supertanker can do a 320 degree turn.
On my first solo, I had to do an "extremely difficult" 360 degree turn, WHILE STILL IN THE PATTERN, no less. Gee, I must be a gifted pilot to perform such a maneuver at 1,000ft AGL! :rolleyes:
 
On my first solo, I had to do an "extremely difficult" 360 degree turn, WHILE STILL IN THE PATTERN, no less. Gee, I must be a gifted pilot to perform such a maneuver at 1,000ft AGL! :rolleyes:


Oh yeah, that old trick.

INSTRUCTOR: Now let's see you do a perfect 360 degree right turn, returning to this exact position, speed, and altitude.

LAPMAN: [wiggles control yoke for a second or two] Want to see it again?

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Oh yeah, that old trick.

INSTRUCTOR: Now let's see you do a perfect 360 degree right turn, returning to this exact position, speed, and altitude.

LAPMAN: [wiggles control yoke for a second or two] Want to see it again?

Respectfully,
Myriad
Hey, you weren't supposed to let out the NWO piloting trick! Where's Kitty?
 
Mr. MacKey,

Would you and any other experts (pilots, engineers, ect.), ever consider opening your own facebook group where you can answer questions related to 9/11? It would give you more control, which would eliminate alot of the noise.... Just to compliment this forum of course. You pretty mush have to use your real name (you could technically open a fake account).

I can't speak for others, but I am personally allergic to Facebook.

My e-mail is given in the foreword to my whitepaper, and I occasionally answer questions indirectly related to its contents. Very few ask in good faith, however, instead shifting rapidly from asking to accusing. The noise level is similar. In the end, all one can do is ignore those who are only trying to cause trouble. Same principle applies here.
 
On my first solo, I had to do an "extremely difficult" 360 degree turn, WHILE STILL IN THE PATTERN, no less. Gee, I must be a gifted pilot to perform such a maneuver at 1,000ft AGL! :rolleyes:

That's nothing. On my first solo, I did a whole series of 360 degree turns, and gained 1000 feet without an engine!
 
In this thread, I invite anyone -- but principally the Truth Movement -- to post their crucial questions.

[Plane impacts North Tower]

(1) Cables are severed + jet fuel is dispersed down shaft
(2) Car 50 falls approx. 17 floors taking approx. 10s to reach B1
(3) Jet fuel falls 93 floors taking approx. 30s to reach B1
(4) Car 50 was above Felipe David on B1 when he was burnt by an explosion below

do you accept premise 1 to 4?

peace

and p.s respect for taking up teh challenge
 
do you accept premise 1 to 4?

peace

and p.s respect for taking up teh challenge

Is there some reason why you can't ask the question before laying out some ground rules? It looks instead like you're trying to answer your own question before even asking it.

I'll wait for the question, but keep in mind that one of the very first things one does when evaluating an unexpected answer is to question the assumptions. Number 2 through 4 all look suspect to me, so be prepared to verify them. This is good practice in general.
 
What would be the closest thing to compare the destruction of
the twin towers with? ( if we rule out CD and laser beams )

I mean the gravity driven top to bottom progressive collapse.


Are there any parallels to the destruction of anything man made
or a natural phenomena?

Please give some specific examples.


Best regards Niclas.
 
What would be the closest thing to compare the destruction of
the twin towers with? ( if we rule out CD and laser beams )

I mean the gravity driven top to bottom progressive collapse.


Are there any parallels to the destruction of anything man made
or a natural phenomena?

Please give some specific examples.

Well, if we're only talking about the collapse phase rather than the events that led to it, comparison to controlled demolition or collapse due to seismicity isn't totally inappropriate. In a standard demolition, the vast majority of destructive energy is from gravity, with the demolitions themselves merely serving to release it all at once.

There is a bit of a scaling problem, however, since the gravitational energy of a structure scales roughly as the square of its height -- GPE = m g h, and both m and h increase at least linearly -- so, viewed in terms of GPE per floor area, the WTC Towers were about twenty times higher than any controlled demolition ever. Similarly, earthquakes have only dropped structures up to about 20 floors high as far as I know, so again the sheer amount of energy per area is much higher.

Others have drawn parallels to avalanches, either of snow or other debris -- Dr. Benson (of the Bazant, Le, Greening, and Benson paper) had an exchange here with myself and others, and we concluded that analytically the speed of collapse is comparable to these phenomena. An avalanche of 300,000 tons of material, over a distance of 300 meters vertical, is not too incredible to imagine.

By sheer energetics, the destruction could be compared to naval disasters such as the sinking of IJN Yamato -- the vessel in question displaced roughly 70,000 to 75,000 tons, and fires caused by repeated attacks eventually triggered her aft main magazine, detonating perhaps 20-50 tons of TNT and destroying the vessel in short order. This compares to a mass of 300,000 tons and gravitational energy of about 100 tons TNT equivalent for each tower. Naturally, the construction, containment within the water, explosives vs. gravity and so on are all quite different, so you should not read too much into this comparison.
 
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Well, if we're only talking about the collapse phase rather than the events that led to it, comparison to controlled demolition or collapse due to seismicity isn't totally inappropriate. In a standard demolition, the vast majority of destructive energy is from gravity, with the demolitions themselves merely serving to release it all at once.

There is a bit of a scaling problem, however, since the gravitational energy of a structure scales roughly as the square of its height -- GPE = m g h, and both m and h increase at least linearly -- so, viewed in terms of GPE per floor area, the WTC Towers were about twenty times higher than any controlled demolition ever. Similarly, earthquakes have only dropped structures up to about 20 floors high as far as I know, so again the sheer amount of energy per area is much higher.

Others have drawn parallels to avalanches, either of snow or other debris -- Dr. Benson (of the Bazant, Le, Greening, and Benson paper) had an exchange here with myself and others, and we concluded that analytically the speed of collapse is comparable to these phenomena. An avalanche of 300,000 tons of material, over a distance of 300 meters vertical, is not too incredible to imagine.

By sheer energetics, the destruction could be compared to naval disasters such as the sinking of IJN Yamato -- the vessel in question displaced roughly 70,000 to 75,000 tons, and fires caused by repeated attacks eventually triggered her aft main magazine, detonating perhaps 20-50 tons of TNT and destroying the vessel in short order. This compares to a mass of 300,000 tons and gravitational energy of about 100 tons TNT equivalent for each tower. Naturally, the construction, containment within the water, explosives vs. gravity and so on are all quite different, so you should not read too much into this comparison.
I have seen it compared to tornadoes, hurricanes and volcanoes. For that matter, the sheer volume of degloving injuries found correlates with injuries seen in f3 tornadoes and hurricanes.
 
I have seen it compared to tornadoes, hurricanes and volcanoes. For that matter, the sheer volume of degloving injuries found correlates with injuries seen in f3 tornadoes and hurricanes.

You can't realistically compare it to tornados.

Tornados do not involve any sort of combustion (except coincidentally) but they do involve intense lateral winds, as well as highly divergent pressure zones. Combustion was present in the 9/11 disaster, but high lateral winds and divergent pressure zones were not.

Tornados don't drop buildings, they pop them or rip them.

ETA: Compare, for example, the damage to WTC with the damage to buildings in Atlanta when a tornado touched down there a few months ago.
 
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Well, if we're only talking about the collapse phase rather than the events that led to it, comparison to controlled demolition or collapse due to seismicity isn't totally inappropriate. In a standard demolition, the vast majority of destructive energy is from gravity, with the demolitions themselves merely serving to release it all at once.

See, now we're getting somewhere.
 
See, now we're getting somewhere.

Good! Now you understand that gravity is what makes a controlled demolition look like it does, and that no explosives were needed in the WTC when you had the planes and fires to do the job.

That's great, Mackey, you're making real progress with these guys. And Red, it's cool that you've had the intellectual courage to realize you were wrong about the whole ridiculous controlled demolition thing. Gravity is all you need to come straight down.
 
Thank you R.Mackey

To call something an avalanche, i suppose there has to be an accumulation
of material/mass?

1. Did such "snowballing" occur as the towers went down?

2. If so, is this any different from the "pancake" explanation?

3. How was a lot of the debris ejected out and away from the buildings
if, at the same time, there was an accumulation of debris?

Niclas
 

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