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Ed Ofama... On Iran

citizenzen said:
The rolled eyes would indicate that you think you have a better solution.

Please share it.

In fact, anybody who thinks they know what to do, let's hear the suggestions.
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Solution to what? Israel wanting to bomb Iran because it would suit their balance of power interests in the region?

There is no credible evidence that Iran has any kind of secret weapons programme and we've been going over their legal programme with a fine tooth comb for a decade now. It's all starting to feel very Iraq-ish, where America forced the UN into insisting on constantly shifting the goalposts so that Iraq could never fully comply with their demands. Iran can't definitively prove a negative, by insisting on that kind of standard then it is just a way of leaving the door open for the irrational option of violence against the regime and its people.

The only "solution" her is to allow Iran to go about the business of legally developing its civilian nuclear programme under the auspices of the NNPT.

The smart thing to do though would be to engage Iran, give them assistance in developing their programme in exchange for greater détente and international scrutiny of the programme.

Iran doesn't want conflict with the US, it has made many an overture that if the West will take it seriously then it is willing to come to the international party. But America is still massively hung up over the whole loss of the Shah and the embassy thing and have relentlessly built Iran up to be a demagogue, like Goldberg with borders, that it can use for it's own domestic and foreign (read: Israel) policy.
 
bit_pattern said:
Iran doesn't want conflict with the US, it has made many an overture that if the West will take it seriously then it is willing to come to the international party.
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So why do they say "Death to America" and sponsor international terrorism?
 
Virus said:
Why do they say Death to America and support international terrorism?
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Because America backed Iraq in their war and bombed the **** out of Iranian oil production in the 1980's, I'd imagine.

As for your video, I don't know about you but I'm pretty sure it's a stupid idea to base your foreign policy on what mobs in the street are chanting. And if you actually listen to what Iranian diplomats are saying, what Khamenei is saying, Iran is not looking for conflict. It simply wants to be treated like a normal player on the international stage.
 
bit_pattern said:
Because America backed Iraq in their war and bombed the **** out of Iranian oil production in the 1980's, I'd imagine.
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They took hostages from the Embassy.

bit_pattern said:
As for your video, I don't know about you but I'm pretty sure it's a stupid idea to base your foreign policy on what mobs in the street are chanting.
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That's a state-directed mass rally. They're compulsory.

bit_pattern said:
And if you actually listen to what Iranian diplomats are saying, what Khamenei is saying, Iran is not looking for conflict. It simply wants to be treated like a normal player on the international stage.
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Bridge?
 
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bit_pattern said:
Because America backed Iraq in their war and bombed the **** out of Iranian oil production in the 1980's, I'd imagine.

As for your video, I don't know about you but I'm pretty sure it's a stupid idea to base your foreign policy on what mobs in the street are chanting. And if you actually listen to what Iranian diplomats are saying, what Khamenei is saying, Iran is not looking for conflict. It simply wants to be treated like a normal player on the international stage.
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Just because a regime holds a holocaust denial jamborie, complete with a cartoon contest for the kids, declares that 9/11 was an inside job, screams that the "holocaust" was a hoax perpetrated in order to steal Palestine, lovingly supports Assad and his merry band of rouges, conducts fake elections while shooting those who object, encourages prison guards to rape political prisoners, hangs homosexuals while declaring that Iran has no gay people, launches para-military attacks on embassies of nations they don't like while pathetically dressing it up as a "spontaneous riot" and kidnaps foreigners who wander too close to their border for ransom... doesn't mean they aren't fine international citizens.
 
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citizenzen said:
Agreements bolded in red ...
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Great that you can use bold and color sequences, but I'm asking you personally, because all I see is this supposed indisputeable perpetual meatshield of using Iraq and the 2003 war when addressing issues like nuclear weapons and their proliferation.

Assuming the rest has been skimmed over because you agree with me and have nothing to add? Good.
 
trustbutverify said:
Just because a regime holds a holocaust denial jamborie, complete with a cartoon contest for the kids, declares that 9/11 was an inside job, screams that the "holocaust" was a hoax perpetrated in order to steal Palestine, lovingly supports Assad and his merry band of rouges, conducts fake elections while shooting those who object, encourages prison guards to rape political prisoners, hangs homosexuals while declaring that Iran has no gay people, launches para-military attacks on embassies of nations they don't like while pathetically dressing it up as a "spontaneous riot" and kidnaps foreigners who wander too close to their border for ransom... doesn't mean they aren't fine international citizens.
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That's a strange opinion for you to hold.
 
bigjelmapro said:
Great that you can use bold and color sequences, but I'm asking you personally, because all I see is this supposed indisputeable perpetual meatshield of using Iraq and the 2003 war when addressing issues like nuclear weapons and their proliferation.

Assuming the rest has been skimmed over because you agree with me and have nothing to add? Good.
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I'd love to see Ron Paul win just to watch the epic collective tantrum had by the Israel lobby and the neocon fruitcakes :D
 
bit_pattern said:
Yes, the weeping and the wailing and the ganshing of the teeth from people such as yourself would be epic lulz :D
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Yes, all those dirty Zionists would finally get what's coming to them. Also the US would pull out of the UN and no more welfare, unemployment insurance, or medicare for lazy Americans.

You Paultards would be in heaven!!
 
bit_pattern said:
Because America backed Iraq in their war and bombed the **** out of Iranian oil production in the 1980's, I'd imagine.
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So this has more to do with the US providing a modicum of backing and not at all to do with the issues prior to this involvement between Pan Arabism/nationalism and Islamism, border disputes, etc.

I'm curious by your sense of reasoning here. By that same line of thought, the Iranians should hold the Germans, Austrians, French, Italy, China and Egypt accountable for the Iraqi chemical weapons program used against the Iranians throughout the 1980's.

It does not.

How about the Soviets and their satellites as well as the French for providing the Iraqis with their attack aircraft and ballistic missiles, used against Iran and its civilian population.

It does not.

If you stated instead the US-backed overthrow of Mosaddegh and protecting the Shah-led regime, sure, this would be more logical. But then again, the current regime in Iran is nothing like the democratically elected government of Mosaddegh. Instead the paranoia-induced drivel the current Iranian regime is dishing out is just that, paranoia-induced drivel.
 
bigjelmapro said:
So this has more to do with the US providing a modicum of backing and not at all to do with the issues prior to this involvement between Pan Arabism/nationalism and Islamism, border disputes, etc.
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That is certainly not an argument I have made. Would you like to fram your interrogation in less ambiguous terms and actually make you argument rather than just hinting at it?

I'm curious by your sense of reasoning here. By that same line of thought, the Iranians should hold the Germans, Austrians, French, Italy, China and Egypt accountable for the Iraqi chemical weapons program used against the Iranians throughout the 1980's.
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Yes.

It does not.
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Evidence?

How about the Soviets and their satellites as well as the French for providing the Iraqis with their attack aircraft and ballistic missiles, used against Iran and its civilian population.

It does not.
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The Soviets don't exist any.more. I'm pretty sure Iran repaired the relations with Russia. And France, as far as I understand there is great animosity towards France for their vocal support in limiting the Iranian nuclear programme.

If you stated instead the US-backed overthrow of Mosaddegh and protecting the Shah-led regime, sure, this would be more logical. But then again, the current regime in Iran is nothing like the democratically elected government of Mosaddegh. Instead the paranoia-induced drivel the current Iranian regime is dishing out is just that, paranoia-induced drivel.
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What does Iran being "nothing like the democratically elected government of Mosaddegh" have to do with them likely holding America responsible for Operation Ajax?
 
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