My point is, yes, I disagree with anyone who would push someone's buttons in order to cause any further rage. I can cite smaller situations where I'm on the phone with customer service of (fill in the blank) company and instead of calming me down after yelling in their ear, they feel it's time for a fight so they say something that sparks the whole situation to go haywire such as "You're going to pay this whether you want to or not, pal!" or "The Amish live without electricity" - it just sickens me when people are conditioned to carry this type of attitude with them when their role is to be professional and calm what situation might be problematic.
So because someone doesn't feel like having you yell at them, it's their fault?
Compare that to Customs officers at the Canadian border. Most are walking around with chips on their shoulders, they don't smile, they create a very unpleasant atmosphere, and they were rude with me last time I had to deal with them at an airport. As I approached the counter, I placed my bags on top of the table and the officer YELLS "DID I TELL YOU TO PUT THAT THERE?" I said no, and removed the bag. He didn't need to talk to me that way. I wanted to respond by saying "Good afternoon to you too, officer" but I'm sure that would have diminished the what small amount of humor this guy had left so I just brushed it off and proceeded to the "interrogation" room where they rooted through my belongings. That made me uncomfortable but it had to be done. The jackass at the check-in counter only created more of a tense situation that didn't need to be.
Thin skin much? How long have you been carrying this grudge?
An old high school buddy I know has a brother in law who is a cop and likes to brag about how long it's been since he's had a fight on the job. There is another old high school acquaintance from my past who feels it's great that he can be rude to people and they can't do anything about it because they'll end up in prison if they do. Needless to say, I haven't talked to either of these goofs since learning of their insecurities.
So because some tangential acquaintance talks about how long (not how recently) since he's had to fight, that's bad? And of course you yourself admit he's simply "bragging."
And the other acquaintance you knew briefly 10+ years before, he told you he likes to be rude. That's awfully damning. Gee, might as well fire the entire police department with that kind of "insidious corruption."
I guess my point is that, from my experience the type of person who becomes a cop is someone who feels they will have a career giving them a license to be a jackass. I understand, not all are like that but I have yet to meet someone who is totally polar opposite.
This is why I demonize cops. Sorry if it offends but that's the way I am and it's situations like these mentioned that have put me there.
No, you get butt hurt and carry a grudge for decades. That's why you blanket condemn hundreds of thousands of people based on (more likely than not imagined) slights you "suffered" over the decades.
No, you get butt hurt and carry a grudge for decades. That's why you blanket condemn hundreds of thousands of people based on (more likely than not imagined) slights you "suffered" over the decades.
Nope! I'm not carrying a grudge at all! In fact, I know many other people who feel the same way I do about people in law enforcement.
And no, nothing is being imagined here. Maybe you have fun imagining a cop/police/authoritative-thug nation, but I don't think that's fun or cute or even the least bit amusing!
And no, nothing is being imagined here. Maybe you have fun imagining a cop/police/authoritative-thug nation, but I don't think that's fun or cute or even the least bit amusing!
This police brutality angle seems to somehow be your assertion in a lot of this from what I can tell. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that police brutality is acceptable; it isn't, but it does happen.
The discussion is around whether the occupiers were the victims of violence. They may well have been to a point (however I see nothing that suggests anything but the police doing their job using appropriate force).
It seems to me that if the occupiers want to play with fire they should expect to get the widdle fingers burnt, it's the nature of the game they want to play.
Nope. That's not what I'm basing it on... read what I said to FMW again.
Two cops being goofballs (actually three if you want to include the customs agent experience) are examples right off the top of my head. There's more... but really, how much will you guys even care to listen or read?
However if you want me to go on citing examples about other people I know who are cops and other specific encounters, which includes family members, I will.
Well, with a 2% margin of error and a total population of 800,000 or so LEOs, you'll need to have encountered a little over 2,000 cops, according to this calculator, to have a representative sample. Of course, given that someone acting like a dick is not evidence they actually are a dick, (such as the way someone acting like a good person is not evidence they are) you would have to observe them for an extended period of time, in a nationwide blind study. Like Derren Brown appearing in someone's daily life, except without the dapper goatee, nice suits, and grasp of human psychology.
Crowd is already hostile by the time the video starts, and are consistently ignoring police requests to get back, messing with police netting, and that's only in the first two minutes. Yet it is labelled "peaceful".
Again, crowd already hostile, and like the pike video, this starts seconds before the police act. I think we need come more context. The crowd, I note, outnumbers the police substantially, and are actively trying to get past them. Even as the police jab with their batons, they still try and push past them. Given the usual trend, I'm betting the police already asked them to go away, which the students ignored.
To ensure control. It is much harder to subdue people than Hollywood would have one think. Those little taps on the head that give the hero headaches? Those often cause brain damage in real life.
What the police are doing is preventing him from moving. There are three points of control involved, so the officers can react swiftly and effectively to any attempts to escape. Given the gloves, they may also suspect that he is on and/or possessing drugs.
That video has nothing to do with OWS, since it was taken in 2009. It also lacks context as to why the man was stopped, and is about the police of Berkeley proper, not UC Berkeley Police, which are a separate and qualified police department.
Protestors pushing over police barricades. The guy with the orange nekerchief can be seen trying to push past police at about 0:35, the girl at 0:55 or so who was sprayed for "no reason" may have hit the cop and then tried to back away, and we cannot see why, or who, used force on the crying young woman.
Are you pro-cop wanna-bes happy now? I provided links to videos!
Okay. Why did you think these videos actually supported your point, when all but one of them show a crowd that is already hostile to the police when confrontations erupted, and the outlier has nothing to do with the protests?
Olsen is a former Marine who was at OccupySeattle, when he was struck in the head, stunned, and taken to the hospital. The video is below.
Early reports of the incident from OWS-sympathetic media usually described him as an "Iraqi vet" who was "shot by police". The natural assumption, upon reading such a headline, is that he was shot with actual bullets. Only upon reading the articles does one find that he was allegedly struck by a rubber bullet. Or a launched tear gas grenade. Or a launched flashbang (which is, oddly enough, often deemed a "concussion grenade" by those decrying police use of force. Conc. grenades refer to a specific type of lethal weaponry distinct from flashbangs, which are less-lethal. For some reason, they are almost never called "stun grenades" by these same individuals.). Some of the more objective reports included multiple possibilities, but they were all sure police did it.
The police then said that they did not deploy any projectile weapons at the scene that night, and the only officers issued with such returned them with the exact same amount of projectiles they had left with. They said there was a verifiable paper trail proving they didn't shoot anyone. Suddenly, the OWS party line became that Olsen was "struck" by a police tear gas grenade or flashbang. I have never seen anyone retract their earlier reports of him being shot.
Now, in the video above, several facts come to light.
1. Protestors were ordered to disperse by officers. They refused. Here's the WA law about rioting.Here's the one about failure to disperse.
2. There's a cut that skips over the point where the police started to use force. Given the usual use of cuts by OWS, such as in the edited video of the UC Davis incident, I find this suspicious.
3. Protestors were throwing tear gas back at the police. That is assault on officers of the law.
4. Olsen was standing in between protestors and the police line. Given that TGGs were being thrown back, it's entirely possible that the grenade which may or may not have detonated near his head or struck him was thrown by a protestor, not police.
4b. One might argue that this hypothetical protestor was not responsible for Olsen's injury, since he was not aiming for Olsen or his head, but since there is no evidence that the police were doing so either--and it is, in fact, something people using flashbangs are specifically told not to do--it would also mean making the police less responsible. You can't say a protestor hitting Olsen by accident would not responsible, but the police would not be. That would be a double standard.
4c. One could argue the police were responsible because it was their device in the first place, but that would basically be the same as arguing that a cop who gets shot by his own gun committed suicide. Or a cop who has his badge stolen is responsible for the crimes someone commits using it.
5. The video description says it's proof Olsen was shot by the cops, yet does not have clear footage of whatever hit him, or the impact. In fact, it actually weakens the case Olsen was shot by the cops the second one realizes #3.
Yet, of course, very few people question it, even when the so-called "proof" isn't. In fact, the video itself says Olsen was struck in the head, but the title and description both claim he was shot. The video itself is not even sure what "felled" Olsen.
Basically, if Fox News tried something like this, a good deal of the people who hit "Like" on the video would be calling them out, but since it's sympathetic to them, they disengage their critical thought.
Police Investigate Assault with Life Threatening Injuries at Washington-Jefferson Park Eugene Police are investigating an assault that occurred at Washington-Jefferson Park that has resulted in life threatening injuries to one man. An officer found a 54-year-old white male unresponsive and not breathing within the Occupy Eugene encampment at 10:40 p.m. and administered C.P.R. The man was taken to a local hospital with life threatening injuries. This incident was the fifth fight-related incident that police had responded to since 7:00
Correction: Olsen was at Occupy Oakland, not Seattle. (Thanks bynmdsue.) I was thinking of the Dorli Rainey pepper-spraying, in which a tiny old woman somewhere in the middle of a crowd that was asked to disperse was hit with pepper-spray. Despite the martyr-like photo of her, she was able to make her own way home and discuss OWS with people on the bus.
I also have a problem with the constant cries of "police do X to Iraqi vet" or "police do X to girl", "police do x to woman". The implication is that action taken against people in those categories is somehow especially heinous, which leads to the logical inference that those groups should somehow be treated differently from any other person whom the police decide to use force against. While there are concerns about the amount of physical force the various genders can stand, pepper spray works just as well on the XX and the XY alike.
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