Obese kids

[Cynical]

EvilYeti said:

"To Cynical, I ask what you would you do if you saw parents giving cigarrettes to young children, would you say something?"

No, I wouldn't. I believe in the saying MYOB.

Oh, except for people who lie around unemployed for no reason and guys who never bother to get a haircut.

Which brings me back to my usual question:

 

[Snide]

Re: Re: Obese kids

I was with you up until this point. The "obesity gene" myth is one of the most prevalent junk science beliefs in our popular culture. Many self-described skeptics in this very forum believe such nonsense. For the truth on the matter, read Michael Fumento's excellent article here

To Cynical, I ask what you would you do if you saw parents giving cigarrettes to young children, would you say something? Do you realize the healths risks of obesity are only slightly less than smoking?

I've used words to the effect of suggesting that genetics has a lot to do with it. But all that means, and I hope all that it means to most others who mention it, is that it is clearly more difficult for some people to keep their weight in check than others.

I notice the article claims genes have very little to do with it. Interesting. It would seem most of us know of someone who can eat "anything and as much of what they want," yet stay lean.

 

[Skeptic]

Re: Re: Obese kids

I was with you up until this point. The "obesity gene" myth is one of the most prevalent junk science beliefs in our popular culture. Many self-described skeptics in this very forum believe such nonsense. For the truth on the matter, read Michael Fumento's excellent article here

There is a huge difference between saying "there is some genetic predisposition to becoming overweight" to "there is a 'fat gene' (so it isn't my fault if I weight 400 pounds)". I think that the person you replied to merely thinks the first is true, not the latter.

 

[Kodiak]

Well, this might not be a popular thread, but here goes..

(And by the way, I know nothing of Nyarlathotep's personal circumstances, his thread simply triggered this...)

One of my biggest pet peeves is seeing obese parents bringing their obese children to MacDonalds; the whole family gorging on junk food.

It drives me mad.

I have twice confronted such parents (actually once in MacDonalds, once at some diner) and expressed vociferous dismay at their actions. (What I really hoped to do was give their kids something to think about.)

It borders on child abuse IMO.

Fine - some obesity is probably genetic. Parents with such a genetic disorder should feel a greater parental burden to ensure that their children's lives are minimally affected by their unfortunate genes. Parents of children with myriads of other genetic disorders do feel such a burden. Personally, I think many of these parents subconciously feel some sort of comfort - a kind of affirmation of the acceptability of their own affliction - through having kids that are miniature version of themselves.

Basically I find it hard to believe that, between the ages of 0-14, or whatever, parents do not have enough control over their kids' eating habits to ensure that they don't become obese. Good habits set in these formative years provide a foundation for a healthy lifestyle - after that it becomes the child's own choice. As with anything you teach your kids....

It's still a free country, get over it. Worry about your own family and their health.

 

[Crossbow]

The problem of obesity in children is something that I find quite disturbing. In the USA approximately 33% of all adults are obese, and about 25% of all children are obese.

Think about that! One in every four children are obese, we are not talking about a few extra pounds, or baby fat, this is obese. However, we want kids to learn computers, the Internet, and have high test scores. And of course we want meals that are easy to fix and that taste good too since everyone is in such a rush anymore.

It is no wonder that obesity is increasing and I expect that it will eventually become a matter of public health like smoking and drug addiction.

 

[EvilYeti]

Re: Re: Re: Obese kids

Yeti, while 99.9% of all obesity in the west may not be genetic, its absolutely a fact that certain conditions, such as leptin defciency and hypothyroidism result in obesity.

Ya-boo.

One, hypothyroidism is easily treatable.

Two, a genetic leptin defciency has only been found in a few people, all from the same family, in Turkey. And the research is far from complete.

 

[EvilYeti]

Re: Re: Re: Obese kids

I notice the article claims genes have very little to do with it. Interesting. It would seem most of us know of someone who can eat "anything and as much of what they want," yet stay lean.

Two comments on that phenomenon. I've known a few people like that, usually they were either very physically active or would eat huge meals very far apart. One thin friend I have will not eat for a day or so after a big meal.

The true "anything and as much of what they want and stay lean" folks may have some genetic or metabolic disorder that prevents them from putting on weight. But here is the important thing, these people ARE THE ONES WITH A DISORDER! Its completely natural to put on weight, even to the point of obesity, when an individual engages in over-consumption.

 

[Earthborn]

One thing i have done though is "The supermarket line up at 5pm" with the screaming kids. I have allways refused to give my children candy in that situation even if they lay on the floor screamin (they only did it a couple of times then they realized it didn't work) and today if i see other parents in the similar situation i show my full sympati TO THE PARENTS. even helps if i can.

Problem is that not allowing your kid to eat what it wants when it wants it may be the exact opposite of what helps them learn healthy eating habits later in life:

Scientific American Frontiers: Fat and Happy?
Video
Transcript

Check out 'Obesity begins at home'.

The core of the matter is LACK OF UPBRINGING. Teaching your child healthy eating habits is a struggle, it takes a lot of time and energy but it is vital if you want to give your children a good start in life.

Actually, it isn't so hard at all. It just requires parents to do something that seems counterintuitive to them: allowing kids to decide for themselves what they eat and how much they eat of it from an early age.

 

[Cynical]

Earthborn, do you have any kids of your own?

I would be willing to bet NOT.

 

[jj]

The problem of obesity in children is something that I find quite disturbing. In the USA approximately 33% of all adults are obese, and about 25% of all children are obese.

Think about that! One in every four children are obese, we are not talking about a few extra pounds, or baby fat, this is obese. However, we want kids to learn computers, the Internet, and have high test scores. And of course we want meals that are easy to fix and that taste good too since everyone is in such a rush anymore.

It is no wonder that obesity is increasing and I expect that it will eventually become a matter of public health like smoking and drug addiction.

Why am I reminded of an old SF story called "Lipidleggin'"?

 

[jj]

Check out 'Obesity begins at home'.Actually, it isn't so hard at all. It just requires parents to do something that seems counterintuitive to them: allowing kids to decide for themselves what they eat and how much they eat of it from an early age.

Well, I DO have kids (ones Yeti has met, in fact). Neither is obese, neither is even chubby or well padded. Both regulate their own intake.

Now, after an entire day at the barn, what a 13 year old can eat can be truly frightening, I must say. Just get your hands and feet out of the road and keep cooking.

I have related to them that this self-regulation seems to get less effective after you're 40...

 

[Earthborn]

But here is the important thing, these people ARE THE ONES WITH A DISORDER!

If you look at it from an evolutionary viewpoint, a 'disorder' is just something that makes an invidual organism less adapted to its environment. So we can assume that these people are actually well adapted to an environment in which food is abundant. It would also mean that in a Western society the people who gain fat easily are the ones with the 'disorder', even if this would mean a majority of the population has it.

What you choose to call a 'disorder' or not is however not so relevant. What's relevant is the fact that some people can eat very much and stay thin, while others can become obese while eating only a little more than they need. This proves that genetics play a big role in obesity.

This does not mean that there is a 'fat gene', or a 'skinny gene' just as it is unlikely there is a 'gay gene' or a 'straight gene', a 'stupidity gene' or a 'intelligence gene'. Genetic predisposition does not mean unescapable fate.

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Scourging parents for the weight thing is too easy. Sure, smoking and obesity are leading causes of heart disease and so forth. What causes the rest of the heart disease? Too much stress, perhaps. Shall we flog parents for pushing their kids too hard in school? Too much red meat? Shall we chastise parents for their dietary choices, even if basically healthy? Red wine helps with heart disease, maybe. Hey parents, what's with the teetotalling? Surely we should rag on parents who don't make their kids get enough exercise. Toss those computers! A major cause of heart disease might be genetic. Hey you parents with a genetic predisposition to heart disease: Why in hell did you have any kids at all?

That said, I've certainly done my share of eye rolling at parents with obese kids.

~~ Paul

 

[Earthborn]

Earthborn, do you have any kids of your own?

I would be willing to bet NOT.

You are right. But are you willing to bet that the scientists and the parents of the children in the experiments are all childless too?

 

[Soubrette]

Earthborn

Nice link yet again.

My mother was very big on the clear your plate and food=love business. I'm trying hard not to be with my children. But even trying to get them to try things is a palavar and a half - maybe I should let go of that too

Both are slender fine when they're healthy but alarming watching the weight fall off of them when they're ill.

Cynical - I don't understand your point?

Sou

 

[jj]

You are right. But are you willing to bet that the scientists and the parents of the children in the experiments are all childless too?

Well, I do have kids, and I find little to fault from the parts you've summarized.

 

[Crossbow]

Except in rare cases, obesity is not due to genetics.

Rather, it is due to the fact that we like the taste of fat and that our bodies are very good at storing fat.

Currently, most Americans (and more and more of the rest of the world) are having a higher standard of living along with low-cost food and a more sedentary life-style. When my grand-parents were my age, they had to work in very physically demanding jobs and they had to do a good bit of physical labor at home as well (due to the lack of modern utilities and appliances).

Whereas with me, my job is not physically demanding, it pays rather well, and it is actually less expensive to buy food than to raise it myself. Also, I have a good bit of time off (no family to raise) and there are numerous activities I can pursue which do not require much in the way of physical activity (TV, Internet, reading, etc.).

Ergo, I am a sitting duck for obesity so I have to make an effort to avoid the 99 cent double-cheese burger, the ice-cream truck, home delivered pizza, and so on. I do not expect everyone to be thin as a rail, but when I see so many, many people who have over 30% body fat, I am concerned for they are hurting themselves and those who rely on them.

 

[Earthborn]

First you say this:

Except in rare cases, obesity is not due to genetics.

Then suddenly you say this:

Rather, it is due to the fact that we like the taste of fat and that our bodies are very good at storing fat.

Hello!? Both are quite obviously genetically predisposed!

People like the taste of fat. Some are predisposed to like fat more than others. People's bodies are very good at storing fat. Some are predisposed to store fat better than others. No matter how you look at it, genetics play a huge role in the development of obesity.

If I were to take a wild guess at what percentage is genetic and what percentage is enviromental like many people love to do, I'd say something like: 75% genetic, 85% environmental... And no, that doesn't add up to more than 100%!

The genetic causes for obesity are not rare at all. Check out the Obesity Gene Map!

 

[Earthborn]

Nice link yet again.

Thank Alan Alda!

But even trying to get them to try things is a palavar and a half - maybe I should let go of that too

I would at least be very careful not to push them if I were you. If you want them to try something they don't know yet, make sure they are ready and willing to try something new. Pushing too hard will probably make that they distrust your judgement in what is good food. Offer it to them, show them what it is and how much you like it yourself, but if they don't want to eat it, just give it time and allow them to choose something they already know. Pressurizing them to try it is an excellent way to screw up their trust in food.

How do I know? Well, I'm one of those screwed up kids. I have multiple food aversions and often have the irrational fear that someone is out to poison me.

Kids have a natural tendency to be picky eaters. This is perfectly healthy as many things are dangerous to them and they have no guarantee that the adults around them mean well. The only thing you can do is try to gain their trust that you wouldn't give them anything that is bad for them.

 

[Ove]

Earthborn: Do you have a weight problem yourself? (sorry if you think it's a cheap shot)

The reason why i am asking is that some of your arguing sounds a bit like the one I use when i defend my smoking.

Conserning your link i must say that Alan Alda has been used to promote a lot of B***. Regarding this story i frankly don't know because as far as i can tell there's a lot of facts BUT if the bottom line is that you should let children decide for themselves i must say that it is made by someone who has NEVER had tried to raise children.

The mere thought that children should know what's good for themselves is ridicoulus. One thing i noticed was a statement that children are sceptical of what you offer them and you need to gain their trust. Now that is 102% rubbish. Children are extremely naive and will accept anything if you tell them it is good. Only if they discover that it in fact isn't good will they turn away from you. The mere fact that children so easily can be lured away with candy prooves my point.

This reminds me of my daughters teacher who also believed that "kids know what's good for themselves". When we questioned her why, at fourth grade, a lot of the children couldn't read properly, she said: "I don't know either". "I have time and time again lectured them about how important in life it is to be able to read properly". "Well" we asked, "What did you do then when they didn't listen". "Ohh nothing" she said, "They had obviously decided that they would wait till later in life before they needed to learn to read". (I have heard off Summerhill but this was an ordinary scool).

Children needs to be told what is good for them and that is the responsibility of the Parents.


And i'm sorry but this statement:

Actually, it isn't so hard at all. It just requires parents to do something that seems counterintuitive to them: allowing kids to decide for themselves what they eat and how much they eat of it from an early age.

Clearly indicates to me that you'll have a very rough awakening if/when you ever get children yourself AND i must say that if you intend to practice this principle you should refrain from having any.