Obama's Arizona Signs ...

[Kopji]

Don't act morally superior.

Understanding that things are not black and white with simple or easy answers is not being morally superior - it is being moderate.

Instead of building a fence/wall and stopping all this,

If I thought a wall or fence would solve all this, I'd support it. We have seen that building a wall will not stop it by itself. If they have the resources to build submarines, they can certainly overcome a simple barrier in the desert. The entire wall argument reminds me of the Maginot line, and how useless it was against determined foes. But a limited fence might be of use, especially near the easy to cross areas.

Limited legalization of drugs might help too. This all seems much like the 1920's Prohibition years sometimes. Maybe that is too liberal.

your side of this argument has been quite content to continue letting illegals die by the hundreds as they cross the Arizona desert

Actually, I'm all for increased law enforcement. I do have to question the diversion of law enforcement resources to chase down and send back relatively innocent people when as 'your side' argues, the border is infested with violent criminals. I think we should focus on the violent criminals.

... due to the environment or smugglers and drug traffickers who rob, rape, kipnap and murder them by the hundreds. Those 70+ people who were recently murdered in Mexico at the hands of a cartel died because they refused to act as mules and carry drugs across the border. That likely wouldn't have happened if we built a fence/wall to shut down that method.

I don't think it would really hold up that these people would be alive if there was a fence. Or why they were killed. And the fence would need to have been in Texas. And despite all the negative publicity about Arizona they still choose here. I think we tend to misjudge their desperation.

The ONLY reason the liberals are fighting effective measures to close the border is that think most of those people can be turned into citizens and democrats. Now THAT is disgusting.

This seems inefficient. Quite a lot of Democrats don't bother to vote, or they vote other tickets. Why not just pay greedy Republicans to vote Democratic?

I noted a trend in the Bush years that many Hispanics voted Republican. It seemed mostly due to Republicans paying attention to their issues, and not giving up on them as being a write off to Democrats. And I know more than a few legal Hispanics who are much against illegal immigration, and actually fairly conservative in their outlooks. They do tend to be Catholics, and align much more with the religious values of right wing Republicans. Basic message is that I think Republicans are mistaken if they think they'd all become Democrats.

 

[Beerina]

Here's another question for you.

Why has the Federal Government basically given up and allowed a foreign entity (Mexican drug cartels) to take over a large region of Arizona? Where are the troops to fight this incursion?

I don't really see how this is any different than the areas of Los Angeles controlled by drug gangs. There are places there I wouldn't go either.

Only places like Somalia and Afghanistan and Pakistan are "failing" states because they've lost control of large areas of the country. The US doesn't fall into this category because...

Ummm, someone help me. I've talked myself into a corner.

 

[SezMe]

...because isolated pockets of societal dysfunction do not equate to a failed state.

 

[Dorian Gray]

So you're claiming that Obama and his top staff were completely unaware that the BLM had put up signs basically ceding a portion of the US to Mexican cartel run drug and human smugglers? What else aren't they aware of Alerath?

And are you claiming that the BLM is unaware of the Obama administrations policy vis a vis state and local authorities involving themselves in any way in illegals crossing the border? What else is the BLM unaware of? That we are at war with terrorists, perhaps?

Remember when Janet Napolitano said "Show me a 50-foot fence, and I’ll show you a 51-foot ladder.” Well show us a border without the Federal Government doing it's job and this is what you get. Signs that are 100 miles inland warning American citizens to stay away because the area's too dangerous.

And yet here are people like you, Alereth, defending it.

You're stuck on spoon-fed catch phrases. You're acting like an unfounded catchphrase aggregate clearinghouse.

What you're doing here is like pointing to a sign that says "Bridge Out" and using it to accuse the Federal Government of basically ceding that road to a lax bridge construction policy.

 

[Dorian Gray]

Oh please. If you believe that, then where are the signs in Los Angeles warning people that this or that neighborhood is unsafe? And a bad neighborhood in Los Angeles is NOT an invasion by a foreign power. This is.

The Mexican Army has not invaded Arizona. It's not invasion by a foreign power, so stop lying.

When they are warning Americans to stay out of large areas of their own country, it has indeed been taken over. And you best listen to what the locals say. They are being forced out of their homes in the area by these invaders. At the point of a gun. And there is going to be time, if the Feds don't respond, that locals are going to take matter into their own hands. And then woe to anyone who gets in their way.

There are signs all over the back of the grocery store I shop at telling everyone to stay out! OMG! My grocery store has been taken over by a foreign power! Now I can't go to the German-owned Aldi and buy illegal immigrant-picked fruit.

LOL! Where are those 1200 National Guard troops that Obama promised back in May? Still haven't been deployed yet. And how many did they say they were going to put into Arizona? 524. On a border that is 310 miles wide. Oh yeah, 524 troops, if they ever get deployed, sure are going to plug that hole. And I wonder if *this time* the soldiers will be allowed to have loaded guns.

They'll be there as soon as they can. See, they got deployed by your hero George Bush to fight a stupid, pointless and unfounded war in Iraq while Bush not only left the borders unguarded, but actually planned on granting amnesty to 12 million illegal immigrants. So go and tell that, home boy.

Hey, did you know that the biggest stockholder of Fox News is a Muslim who is funding the mosque near the former site of the World Trade Center? Probably not, since I can't imagine it's too widespread a talking point amongst your idols.