Obamao busts russian spy ring

[Learning Phase]

The right will have their panties in a bunch over this, I'm sure. It does give credence to the position that 9/11 proved that the Republicans are useless in the national security role. Our intelligence agencies and courts seem to work just fine with a Democrat in charge.

(cough) aspirin factory (cough)

 

[joobz]

The right will have their panties in a bunch over this, I'm sure. It does give credence to the position that 9/11 proved that the Republicans are useless in the national security role. Our intelligence agencies and courts seem to work just fine with a Democrat in charge.

Please, stop.
9/11 was a failing of both democratic and republican administrations.
Similarly, Bush has done some good on the anti-terrorism front.

 

[GreNME]

...and the 13th?

Isn't it obvious?

 

[Policenaut]

"Living for years in the United States" but not caught by the Bush Administration.

According to the original article they have been under surveillance for at least 6 years. They likely could have been rounded up years ago but I assume the FBI wanted to get as much evidence as possible and understand the full nature of their goals, contacts, supporters, bosses, etc.

"Secret exchanges were made at busy locations like the Long Island Rail Road’s station in Forest Hills, where F.B.I. watchers in 2004 spotted one defendant who is not in custody, Christopher R. Metsos, the charging papers say."

And from Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/28/feds-bust-alleged-russian-spies/):

"One of the defendants living in Boston made contact in 2004 with an unidentified man who worked at a U.S. government research facility.

"He works on issues of strategic planning related to nuclear weapon development," the defendants' intelligence report said of the man."


"One message back to Moscow from the defendants focused on turnover at the top level of the CIA and the 2008 U.S. presidential election."

 

[Puppycow]

2. What U.S. assets did the U.S. government give away to Russia, in exchange for the tip-off leading to this capture?

None. Unless you think that countries will sell out their own spies.
That would be a whole new level of treachery. And what would be the point?

3. Alternatively, what face-saving measures will the U.S. government obtain from the Russian government, to the benefit of the U.S. in return for catching them with their hand in the cookie jar?

4. Alternatively, what steps will the U.S. government take to minimize the diplomatic fallout from this, out of concern for jeopardizing sensitive negotiations (in which case, why make the bust now)?

I don't see this as a major diplomatic crisis. It's not like the sinking of the Cheonan or anything.

Apparently, they have not been charged with espionage yet, although I'm sure the option to add that charge later exists (assuming there is evidence for that). Now that I think about it, perhaps they weren't charged with espionage in deference to the Russians and in hope that our spooks would receive similar consideration if the roles are reversed some day.

 

[theprestige]

None. Unless you think that countries will sell out their own spies.
That would be a whole new level of treachery. And what would be the point?

Really? You think in all the history of the world, no government has ever, ever seen their spies as bargaining chips to be traded at the negotiating table in exchange for something of greater value?

You think it's never, ever occurred to geopolitical strategists that one benefit of having a spy program is that it gives you something worth trading for?

You think Russia, of all countries, has never cut a spy loose, to save face or smooth over ruffled feathers?

You think Vladimir Putin wouldn't sell his own mother's grave-clothes for a piece of whatever pie he has his finger in at the moment?

 

[KingMerv00]

Isn't it obvious?

Yes. Too obvious to mention. The real failing of the administration is the failure to find the 14th.

 

[KingMerv00]

Really? You think in all the history of the world, no government has ever, ever seen their spies as bargaining chips to be traded at the negotiating table in exchange for something of greater value?

You think it's never, ever occurred to geopolitical strategists that one benefit of having a spy program is that it gives you something worth trading for?

You think Russia, of all countries, has never cut a spy loose, to save face or smooth over ruffled feathers?

You think Vladimir Putin wouldn't sell his own mother's grave-clothes for a piece of whatever pie he has his finger in at the moment?

Why do you think it happened THIS time?

You think in all the history of the world, no government has ever, ever caught spies without help from their sponsor country?

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

You can only get away with wearing bearskin hats, and saying 'Da' all the time, for so long before the steely eye of the government falls upon you.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

Imagine finding out your parents are spies though.

COOL!

 

[peptoabysmal]

Just a poor attempt at sarcasm. I have noticed that everything the federal government does that the right doesn't like is pinned on Obama, but he never gets any credit for being strong on national security.

I'm just waiting for a right winger to figure out a way to spin this too as Obama being weak on national security.

...An F.B.I. investigation that began at least seven years ago ...

I can't believe the lefties who want to give B.O. credit for standing in the right place at the right time.

 

[Puppycow]

I'm just waiting for a right winger to figure out a way to spin this too as Obama being weak on national security.

And I didn't have to wait long!

 

[Puppycow]

I can't believe the lefties who want to give B.O. credit for standing in the right place at the right time.

It's only because righties want to blame him when he's standing in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Look, I don't think he deserves credit for this. But he gets blamed for everything that goes wrong, whether he personally had anything to do with it or not (like the oil spill). So it makes just as much sense to give him credit for things that go right, whether he personally had anything to do with it or not.

That's all I'm trying to say.

 

[Puppycow]

Really? You think in all the history of the world, no government has ever, ever seen their spies as bargaining chips to be traded at the negotiating table in exchange for something of greater value?

You think it's never, ever occurred to geopolitical strategists that one benefit of having a spy program is that it gives you something worth trading for?

You think Russia, of all countries, has never cut a spy loose, to save face or smooth over ruffled feathers?

You think Vladimir Putin wouldn't sell his own mother's grave-clothes for a piece of whatever pie he has his finger in at the moment?

Ever is a long time. Perhaps some countries have sold out their own spies, but I see no reason to start from the assumption that this is what has happened this time.

As to Russia and Putin, I do not hold a very high opinion of them, but Putin used to be in the KGB and I would think there was at least a little loyalty to fellow agents. That strikes me as human nature. It's also practical if you want spies to be willing and loyal. They have to believe that they won't be betrayed. It also strikes me as basic human nature that he wouldn't "sell his own mother's grave-clothes" unless he really hated his mother. I don't think he is in such desperate circumstances that he would need to do this, and I don't see what the US has to give him that can be done secretly that would make the deal worth it for both sides.

 

[ComsatAngel2017]

I've always wondered: How many English spies has America caught and vice versa? I assume when we catch one we give them a gentle pat on the bum, a gift basket, and send them on their way. It seems to be in the best interests of the "special relationship" after all.

There's no such thing as "English spies in America". There are only, shall we say, Englishmen with a justifiable curiosity about all sorts of interesting things that Americans get up to, which they take to logical extremes. Which, in their enthusiasm, may easily be misinterpreted by misinformed observers as "spying".

 

[NoZed Avenger]

It's only because righties want to blame him when he's standing in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Look, I don't think he deserves credit for this. But he gets blamed for everything that goes wrong, whether he personally had anything to do with it or not . . . .

Like pretty much every President. And everything wrong has historically been blamed by the sitting administration on the previous President, right or not. Likewise, the President generally gets credit for good things he has nothing to do with, as well.

Unfair, granted.

But not exactly novel.

 

[leftysergeant]

Ah, yes. The right wants credit for this. Figures.

Why the hell didnb't the Shrub bust them back when it might have made a difference to the election of another GOP POTUS? Would Karl the Klown have let him pass over such an opportunity? I bloody doubt it.

Republicants don't build criminal cases very well, especially if it involves a foreign power. When they do have evidence of a major crime, they always seem to screw it up by something like water boarding or obtaining evidence in an unlawful manner or reducing a defendant to a mewling idiot who cannot give coherent testimony.

Seems like the most successful prosecutions of terrorists and spies have been conducted under Clinton or Obama.

Think of it as a difference between form and substance.

 

[theprestige]

Why do you think it happened THIS time?

You think in all the history of the world, no government has ever, ever caught spies without help from their sponsor country?

Of course I do. In fact, I explicitly considered that possibility in the post to which Puppycow replied--a reply which explicitly rejected the possibility that the spies were given up as quid pro quo in negotiations with the U.S.

 

[GreNME]

It's only because righties want to blame him when he's standing in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Look, I don't think he deserves credit for this. But he gets blamed for everything that goes wrong, whether he personally had anything to do with it or not (like the oil spill). So it makes just as much sense to give him credit for things that go right, whether he personally had anything to do with it or not.

That's all I'm trying to say.

I think that's well put, and pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter as well.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

If Saint Reagen saved the world from Commies, then Obama practically dressed like Batman and swung in through the window of these spies to bring them justice.