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Obama tax pledge ... up in smoke

I take your points guys. I don't deny there is some whining here.

At the same time, to keep raising the price, and then say "stop whining" smacks (to me) of punching someone in the face, and then when they turn on you angrily and ask "WTF are you doing?" you would say "stop whining".

I just think the phrase whining is thrown around too much. Sometimes people have a justifiable reason to complain. Do they not?
 
ok ok, i was being a snob to some extent.. but back to the topic.. yeah.. stupid topic..
 
I repeat my question, what part of "You will not see ANY of your taxes increased by one dime" is unclear?

The way I see it, that was an unequivocal, blanket statement. He did not say "You will not any of your taxes, except this one and this one and this one, increased by one dime"

No amount of rationalising that, oh of course he "meant" only certain taxes can excuse the fact that he said no taxes would be raised by as much as a dime, no family earning less than $250000 a year will see any form of tax increase, then once in power signed an agreement to raise a form of tax.

Either he lied when he was running for office, or he changed his mind and went back on a promise once elected. There is no way to bandy words to find a middle ground.
 
Gangularis said:
ok ok, i was being a snob to some extent.. but back to the topic.. yeah.. stupid topic..
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Even as a conservative, I agree. This is a huge stretch to turn this into an Anti-Obama thing. I continue to be sorry to see people on my side doing this.

I just had to vent a bit. I'll not derail it further on that discussion.
 
Malkuth said:
I repeat my question, what part of "You will not see ANY of your taxes increased by one dime" is unclear?

The way I see it, that was an unequivocal, blanket statement. He did not say "You will not any of your taxes, except this one and this one and this one, increased by one dime"

No amount of rationalising that, oh of course he "meant" only certain taxes can excuse the fact that he said no taxes would be raised by as much as a dime, no family earning less than $250000 a year will see any form of tax increase, then once in power signed an agreement to raise a form of tax.

Either he lied when he was running for office, or he changed his mind and went back on a promise once elected. There is no way to bandy words to find a middle ground.
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No. You are simply reaching and falling far short.
 
He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

I really don't see how that can be 'interpreted' to mean anything but exactly what it says.
 
Malkuth said:
He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

I really don't see how that can be 'interpreted' to mean anything but exactly what it says.
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I really see you reaching to find a reason to bash Obama. Makes me a bit nostalgic for my first year of grad school. (2001)
 
Malkuth said:
I repeat my question, what part of "You will not see ANY of your taxes increased by one dime" is unclear?

The way I see it, that was an unequivocal, blanket statement. He did not say "You will not any of your taxes, except this one and this one and this one, increased by one dime"

No amount of rationalising that, oh of course he "meant" only certain taxes can excuse the fact that he said no taxes would be raised by as much as a dime, no family earning less than $250000 a year will see any form of tax increase, then once in power signed an agreement to raise a form of tax.

Either he lied when he was running for office, or he changed his mind and went back on a promise once elected. There is no way to bandy words to find a middle ground.
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I suppose that technically you are correct. One could argue that this is a tax on "cigarettes" rather than on "families" and that no-one has to pay the tax.
 
The problems arise when cigs are priced so high that people quit en masse. Isn't this how they are planning on funding childrens health care/insurance? Not that I really care. I don't smoke. But it would seem to be a problem to be relying on taxing a luxury consumable like this for an important program.
 
Malkuth said:
It truly is insane that cigarettes, with all the synthetic toxins added, remain legal, and a huge source of official revenue, while the far less harmful cannabis, which many studies have shown to be remediative of certain conditions to some degree, remains illegal.
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here in europe we seldom smoke weed pure, we mix it with tabaco :)

i pay 7$ for 20 cigarettes. thats crazy, but even more crazy is smoking that dumbstuff :)
 
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Redtail said:
I really see you reaching to find a reason to bash Obama. Makes me a bit nostalgic for my first year of grad school. (2001)
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I see you scrambling in a frantic denial of what is really a very easy fact to understand.

Obama's plan.

Step 1. Proclaim loudly that you won't do that bad things everybody would hate.

Step 2. Get elected in a popular victory for saying you won't do the bad things that everybody would hate.

Step 3. Do the bad things that everybody hates, knowing that millions of people will fall over themselves in frantic denial that the bad thing everybody hates actually means what it very plainly does.


I'm not reaching for a reason to bash Obama at all. I'm quite shocked at how fiercely some of you are scrambling to find a way to excuse this.
 
Malkuth said:
I see you scrambling in a frantic denial of what is really a very easy fact to understand.

Obama's plan.

Step 1. Proclaim loudly that you won't do that bad things everybody would hate.

Step 2. Get elected in a popular victory for saying you won't do the bad things that everybody would hate.

Step 3. Do the bad things that everybody hates, knowing that millions of people will fall over themselves in frantic denial that the bad thing everybody hates actually means what it very plainly does.


I'm not reaching for a reason to bash Obama at all. I'm quite shocked at how fiercely some of you are scrambling to find a way to excuse this.
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What was the question that Obama was answering?
 
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I'm not a big fan of Obama. But while technically accurate from a certain point of view, this one is quite a stretch for criticism.
 
I am very much in favor of taxing things that I do not personally consume.
 
Redtail said:
What was the question that Obama was answering?
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Try actually reading the OP and the link provided therein.

I've quoted it verbatim and responded to it several times now.

As previously stated, I don't see any other way to "interpret the real meaning" behind it.

If such a seemingly simple statement as "you will not see ANY of your taxes increase one single dime" either can or must be 'interpreted' as meaning that some forms of tax actually will be increased, then something is indeed fundamentally wrong with your system of politics.

It's cut and dried. He either lied to increase his chances of getting elected or reneged on a sincere promise after he got elected.

Thumb's down.
 
BeAChooser said:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D979POSG0&show_article=1

Taxes on an addictive substance. Shame on you, Obama.
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WTF? You paid as less as 39 cent per pack in the US?
1110749d4789a0c9f3.gif

Tell me that's the most outrageous April fools day prank ever. :mad:
 
Malkuth said:
I see you scrambling in a frantic denial of what is really a very easy fact to understand.

Obama's plan.

Step 1. Proclaim loudly that you won't do that bad things everybody would hate.

Step 2. Get elected in a popular victory for saying you won't do the bad things that everybody would hate.

Step 3. Do the bad things that everybody hates, knowing that millions of people will fall over themselves in frantic denial that the bad thing everybody hates actually means what it very plainly does.


I'm not reaching for a reason to bash Obama at all. I'm quite shocked at how fiercely some of you are scrambling to find a way to excuse this.
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And how is this three step process different from anything Bush Jr., Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, etc, etc have done?
 
Oliver said:
WTF? You paid as less as 39 cent per pack in the US? [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/1110749d4789a0c9f3.gif[/qimg]
Tell me that's the most outrageous April fools day prank ever. :mad:
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hahaha that must hurt a german, as Germans even come to Switzerland to buy cigarettes because they are cheaper here :D and that at 7$ lol
 
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