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Obama shakes hands with Hugo Chaves

Ya - especially when most of central and south america has been alienated even further by Bush policy over the last 8 years I think his overtures to Cuba - and yes, the handshake - go a long ways towards setting a new tone.

Now, Castro and Chavez are not universally popular down there - but even countries that may not care for either of the men all that much were still put off by the retrograde rhetoric and posturing of Bush and his republicans re: Chavez.

He's a fact of life down there and they all live closer to him - have trade links and citizens living in Venezuela and Venezuelans living in their countries.

It must be very refreshing for them. In all the coverage of this on Fox News I've seen lots of Republican talking heads and the odd Dem saying its no big deal - and I've not seen ONE WORD about how these developments are being received by the rest of latin america, which is to say, positively.

Isn't that what America wants after all? A latin america that respects it and is more responsive to its needs and desires?

Or does America want cold-war politics to continue to play out in a hemisphere that is sick and tired of the old ways?
 
I love the cartoons that make Chavez out to be satan, and Obama out to be a dunce for this.
 
OMG its much worse than I thought.

they didnt just shake hands........
they TALKED

thats the end of the USA and the Start of the Bolivarian States of America ;)

 
Er, "Bolivarian"? Like, from Bolivia?

(Can't view the video, in class. x.x)
 
Euromutt said:
I never cease to marvel at people who think a handshake is the equivalent of a signature on a written surrender. A large chunk of diplomacy (not that I imagine Gingrich is familiar with that word) consists of shaking hands with people whose guts you can't stand. The original purpose of the handshake, according to legend, was to make sure the other guy didn't have a dagger up his sleeve, and even if that's bollocks, the existence of the legend does tell you that even today, the handshake is not seen as a symbol of unconditional friendship.

Well, in the event that I'm ever introduced to Gingrich or Cheney, I'll make sure to refuse to shake hands with them. Not that that'll be difficult, because I'll probably be too busy trying to crush their windpipes.
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You ahve to consider that in the "conservative States', the tradition of sealing a deal with a handshake carries as much (or more) weight than a signed, notarized document.
Note--I say tradition, not actuality. With the people (including myself, to a large extent) who value honesty, square-dealing, (insert platitude here), a man's word and a handshake are important--and you don't get a second chance. If his word isn't good, even a written contract is suspect.
Try to respect the culture--especially if you want us to respect yours.
 
btw in Switzerland and i though in other European country a verbal contract is still legal.
the last time i did such a contract was about 7 weeks ago.
 
rwguinn said:
You ahve to consider that in the "conservative States', the tradition of sealing a deal with a handshake carries as much (or more) weight than a signed, notarized document.
Note--I say tradition, not actuality. With the people (including myself, to a large extent) who value honesty, square-dealing, (insert platitude here), a man's word and a handshake are important--and you don't get a second chance. If his word isn't good, even a written contract is suspect.
Try to respect the culture--especially if you want us to respect yours.
Click to expand...

Well, isn't a bit myopic to project the tradition of a region of your country to the rest of the world?

And as an explanation for the ire in conservative circles I'm not entirely sure that this is at the root of it - wouldn't you say the image of "Chavez as dictator" and being "anti-american" is more of the issue here rather than the handshake itself?

Don't get me wrong you're probably more closely tied to the culture and tradition of the South than I am (in Toronto) I'm just a little surprised that this would be at the root of it when it seems to me to fit in the classical anti-communist bent of American culture.

Chavez is a socialist, socialism is next to communism, we shouldn't deal with communists at all. Wasn't Reagan pilloried as a "Chamberlain" for his arms reduction agreements with the Soviets?
 
Flash! This just in! Country's leader shakes hands with another country's leader. Film at 11.



In other news, the President takes his dog for a walk.
 
Praktik said:
Well, isn't a bit myopic to project the tradition of a region of your country to the rest of the world?
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Why? The rest of the world, and even the US East Coast/West Coast citizens seem to think that "one Size Fits All", and that they are the last word in "Culture", whatever teh hell that is. We should be completely different and accepting?
And as an explanation for the ire in conservative circles I'm not entirely sure that this is at the root of it - wouldn't you say the image of "Chavez as dictator" and being "anti-american" is more of the issue here rather than the handshake itself?
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Not the root--just another factor. We don't trust politicians, period--and we certainly don't trust people who have an avowed mission to destroy us.
Don't get me wrong you're probably more closely tied to the culture and tradition of the South than I am (in Toronto) I'm just a little surprised that this would be at the root of it when it seems to me to fit in the classical anti-communist bent of American culture.

Chavez is a socialist, socialism is next to communism, we shouldn't deal with communists at all. Wasn't Reagan pilloried as a "Chamberlain" for his arms reduction agreements with the Soviets?
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More tied to the West--I hail from West Texas, New Mexico, and Colorado-the old school, not these Califoria newcomers. Wide open spaces, Louis L'Amour:D, and general self-reliance are what we respect.
 
Shaking hands with another leader is a big deal, whether you want to believe it or not. Remember Arafat and Rabin? Nixon and Mao? In high politics, every gesture is important, and you can bet they are aware of this fact. For better or for worse, this is significant.

Didn't Clinton refuse to shake hands with someone, and it was kind of a big deal? Was it Arafat? I can't remember.
 
rwguinn said:
You ahve to consider that in the "conservative States', the tradition of sealing a deal with a handshake carries as much (or more) weight than a signed, notarized document.
Click to expand...

Yes, but does every handshake in the "conservative States" signify a deal?
 
rwguinn said:
Why? The rest of the world, and even the US East Coast/West Coast citizens seem to think that "one Size Fits All", and that they are the last word in "Culture", whatever teh hell that is. We should be completely different and accepting?
Click to expand...

Well, maybe I'm projecting my own experience on the rest of the world and am guilty of that same myopia - it's just up here in Canada I find there's a lot more willingness to consider other points of view.

Maybe this stems from our middle-power status, our parliamentary democratic tradition or our lack of comparable foundational myths to you guys down south (or at least ones with less potency and ubiquity) but it seems to me, from the outside looking in, that Americans have a general tendency to consider their outlook and political system to be ones of primacy over all others.

Hence the viewing of the handshake as some sort of cardinal sin - without realizing of course the consequences of not shaking his hand at a meeting of the Americas - it wasn't just Chavez and Obama there. What would the ripple effect be in Latin America from doing that?

It would play well to the Hannity's, but what opportunities would America be dashing by taking a schoolyard approach to Chavez?

These are the considerations of "diplomacy" - not something in fashion in the South I know - but a necessary evil in the world we live in.

You can't treat external relations with countries the same way you'd treat relations with the neighbourhood pedophile.
 
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