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Obama asks Scotus to stay Texas execution of Mexican

cwalner said:
Yes, and staying the execution (as opposed to pardon or clemency) gains time for the feds to resolve the federal issue without trampling over the state on the state issues. The reference to Cleon was that IMO, clemency would raise the same political backlash that pardoning would, and is not necessary to resolve the federal interest in this case.
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Yep.

I think the issue should be resolved beyond figuring out what to do with Garcia. I think we need to make sure Texas informs foreign citizens accused of capital crimes of their right to contact the consulate. Otherwise, we'll have problems like this again.

Obama should be asking Congress to act, given the SCOTUS' decision.

ETA: But again, not meaning to speak for Cleon, I don't think Cleon was saying it's political suicide for Obama to "make an issue of this" in any way at all.
 
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Well he's been executed:
A Mexican national was executed Thursday for the rape-slaying of a teenager after the U.S. Supreme Court turned down a White House-supported appeal to spare him in a death penalty case where Texas justice triumphed over international treaty concerns.

Humberto Leal, 38, received lethal injection for the 1994 murder of Adria Sauceda. She was fatally bludgeoned with a piece of asphalt.
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http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20110707/33361ed3-986b-4ebd-849a-a3533e0981c7
 
applecorped said:
Obama strikes out again.
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I really don't see any way he could have won. SCOTUS already ruled on this matter and laid out what needed to be done to prevent it in the future. What needed to happen hasn't happened. There is no reason he should have even asked.
 
And I still say Obama should ask Congress to pass legislation to make this treaty binding for the states. I think Congress is obliged to do so or to invalidate the treaty. Since we ratified it, and the SCOTUS says it is not self executing, Congress must pass laws to implement it or admit to the world that we have violated the treaty and/or withdrawn from it.
 
Tricky said:
Not at all. Obama showed that he wanted to preserve international agreements. He didn't save the guy's life, but he made lots of points. I know that sounds cynical, but hey, this is politics.
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And that's what is really important here.:rolleyes:
 
Can someone tell me why a guy who has lived in the US since he was 2, grew up here, killed a 16 year old girl here with a large piece of rock/concrete/cement, never bothered to become a citizen (for whatever reason, most likely due to "could not be bothered") is somehow a cause celebre for the idea that a Mexican national (who hasn't live in Mexico since he was two, since his parents fled that crap hole and came here) is at risk in America due to not having some twat at the consulate give legal advice rather than a lawyer?

Sorry, it makes no sense.

I have quite a few friends and work colleagues who were born and raised in Monterey, went to the university there, came here, and are settled here in Texas.
Most of them are already legal citizens, (and by the way, great neighbors), a couple are working on that bit.

This piece of garbage who killed a 16 year old girl is NOT their poster boy.

So he dies saying "Viva Mexico."

Hombre: you were an embarrassment to Mexico.
 
Darth Rotor said:
Can someone tell me why a guy who has lived in the US since he was 2, grew up here, killed a 16 year old girl here with a large piece of rock/concrete/cement, never bothered to become a citizen (for whatever reason, most likely due to "could not be bothered") is somehow a cause celebre for the idea that a Mexican national (who hasn't live in Mexico since he was two, since his parents fled that crap hole and came here) is at risk in America due to not having some twat at the consulate give legal advice rather than a lawyer?

Sorry, it makes no sense.

I have quite a few friends and work colleagues who were born and raised in Monterey, went to the university there, came here, and are settled here in Texas.
Most of them are already legal citizens, (and by the way, great neighbors), a couple are working on that bit.

This piece of garbage who killed a 16 year old girl is NOT their poster boy.

So he dies saying "Viva Mexico."

Hombre: you were an embarrassment to Mexico.
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The guy was a cretin. But the next time an American is caught in some other country for breaking their laws (or perhaps not breaking any laws at all) it'll be that much harder for us to demand his extradition or argue for his right to see an American consul.

Just in the last few years, we've rescued Americans from North Korea and Iran. Why fritter that away when we don't have to? He had a right to speak to his "native" government. Just because he didn't deserve any special favors doesn't mean this wasn't the height of stupidity on Rick Perry's part.
 
Unabogie said:
Just because he didn't deserve any special favors doesn't mean this wasn't the height of stupidity on Rick Perry's part.
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If there's no reason under Texas law to halt the execution, why is it stupidity on Rick Perry's part? How long is he supposed to wait until Congress gets off its ass? It's already been three years since the Medellin case was decided. How much longer?

Also, I think a decent case could be made that if Texas halts executions aliens, they are discriminating on the basis of national origin (a protected class).
 
Grizzly Adams said:
If there's no reason under Texas law to halt the execution, why is it stupidity on Rick Perry's part? How long is he supposed to wait until Congress gets off its ass? It's already been three years since the Medellin case was decided. How much longer?

Also, I think a decent case could be made that if Texas halts executions aliens, they are discriminating on the basis of national origin (a protected class).
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Because if it's in your discretion to NOT do something that puts Americans at risk, you DON'T do that. The guy wasn't going anywhere. No one is arguing for his release. You don't do this because now the next American who wants to see someone from the US Government from his Iranian cell may be told to go suck on Rick Perry's hair gel.

Stupid move, for political purposes only.
 
cwalner said:
Fair enough, but still, as Cleon stated, Obama making an issue of this would get the States Rights crowds up in arms and be political suicide.

Even if this is a valid issue, it is still a state issue, and not a federal one.
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Either the US signed such a treaty that says this, or it did not. Either it applies at the state level or it does not.
 
Unabogie said:
Because if it's in your discretion to NOT do something that puts Americans at risk, you DON'T do that. The guy wasn't going anywhere. No one is arguing for his release. You don't do this because now the next American who wants to see someone from the US Government from his Iranian cell may be told to go suck on Rick Perry's hair gel.

Stupid move, for political purposes only.
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First of all, is Iran a signatory of the treaty? If not, Iran doesn't have to do anything no matter what.

Second, you addressed neither the point of how long one is supposed to wait for Congress to act, nor the discrimination argument.
 
They should have asked him to point out Mexico on a globe. If he succeeded, he gets clemency. Ah, well...
 
Unabogie said:
The guy was a cretin. But the next time an American is caught in some other country for breaking their laws (or perhaps not breaking any laws at all) it'll be that much harder for us to demand his extradition or argue for his right to see an American consul.
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Rubbish. The bait and switch here is becoming tiresome.

Here is some more about your poster child for misplaced victim worship.
Adria Sauceda, 16, his victim, was found naked by authorities, according to court documents.

"There was a 30- to 40-pound asphalt rock roughly twice the size of the victim's skull lying partially on the victim's left arm," court documents read. "Blood was underneath this rock. A smaller rock with blood on it was located near the victim's right thigh."

A "bloody and broken" stick roughly 15 inches long with a screw at the end of it was also protruding from the girl's vagina, according to the documents.
In his first statement to police, Leal said Sauceda bolted from his car and ran off. After he was told his brother had given detectives a statement, he changed his story, saying Sauceda attacked him and fell to the ground after he fought back. He said when he couldn't wake her and saw bubbles in her nose, he got scared and went home
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.
We put people to death for crap like that here. This dirtbag ain't the first.

his case is being used by the usual suspects to pursue a well known and over subscribed political agenda. End of Story.
Just in the last few years, we've rescued Americans from North Korea and Iran.
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And we'll do it again. Most of those countries aren't peopled by morons. I find it strange that you think they are. We work deals, sometime fast, sometimes slow.

Now, to really chap your ass, I was against the idiots in America who got all up in arms over that teenaged punk who got caught in Singapore tagging cars and was gonna get caned. Cane his sorry ass. Damned right.

But no, bleeding heart fools of that time made arguments similar to the appeal you are trying to make. They were all up in arms insisting that the President and Sec State "do something about this horrible punishment!" Oh, no, he ought not to be held accountable! That's what you are arguing: not held accountable.

Sorry, he busted their rules, as a guest in their country, and had to stand tall for his actions. Cane him good, officer, and give him one for me, as he embarrassed my country.
 
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Darth Rotor said:
Rubbish. The bait and switch here is becoming tiresome.

Here is some more about your poster child for misplaced victim worship.
.
We put people to death for crap like that here. This dirtbag ain't the first.

his case is being used by the usual suspects to pursue a well known and over subscribed political agenda. End of Story.

And we'll do it again. Most of those countries aren't peopled by morons. I find it strange that you think they are. We work deals, sometime fast, sometimes slow.

Now, to really chap your ass, I was against the idiots in America who got all up in arms over that teenaged punk who got caught in Singapore tagging cars and was gonna get caned. Cane his sorry ass. Damned right.

But no, bleeding heart fools of that time made arguments similar to the appeal you are trying to make. They were all up in arms insisting that the President and Sec State "do something about this horrible punishment!" Oh, no, he ought not to be held accountable! That's what you are arguing: not held accountable.

Sorry, he busted their rules, as a guest in their country, and had to stand tall for his actions. Cane him good, officer, and give him one for me, as he embarrassed my country.
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This^^^
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
It'd be great if Texas would simply make it their policy to inform Mexican citizens accused of capital offenses that they have a right to contact the Mexican consulate.
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Hardly applies here as he didn't claim Mexican citizenship until after the trial.
 
Brainster said:
So what's the solution? Let him go? Or will they settle for just life in prison?

BTW, this "Mexican national" has been in the United States since he was 2.
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It's moot now, obviously, at least for this case. But my understanding is that the law under consideration would have allowed for him to have a hearing to determine whether the failure to inform him of this right prejudiced his case. In general the standard is whether there is a reasonable probability that the outcome would have been different if not for the error. Given what I've read about this case, the answer is pretty clearly "no."

This guy made his incriminating statements to police before he was in custody (according to every court that has considered the issue; custody can be a murky issue). The treaty applies to foreign nationals who are under arrest. He should have been notified of his right once he was arrested, but it isn't as if there was anything the consulate could have done for him. He was already boned at that point. Also, the remedy would have been a new trial (at best), not a walk. I have seen nothing to suggest that any important evidence would be rendered inadmissible.

The easy solution is for police to add one more sentence to the standard Miranda warning: "If you are not a United States citizen, you have a right to speak to the consulate of your nation of origin before answering any questions." Then if they don't assert the right it is waived.
 
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