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NYPD Commissioner Kelly admitts to anti aircraft capability

njslim

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njslim
Joined
May 30, 2006
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On the CBS News programs "60 Minutes" NYPD Commisioner Raymond Kelly
admiited to interviewer Scott Pelley that the police department has an
antiaircraft capability to be used in extreme situations


Under fire by some for police counterterrorism tactics highlighted in a series of Associated Press articles, Kelly doesn't elaborate to interviewer Scott Pelley exactly how cops could take down a plane, but when asked point-blank whether the police have the equipment and training to pull off such a feat, Kelly responds, "Yes"

"Do you mean to say that the NYPD has the means to take down an aircraft?" Pelley asks.

To which Kelly responds: "Yes, I prefer not to get into the details but obviously this would be in a very extreme situation."

"You have the equipment and the training," Pelley follows up.

"Yes," Kelly answers.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...ve_could_oLYGWtpJGmt4ewT0camuqL#ixzz1Z1YGoPl4
 
I saw that and wondered what the NYPD had. Then again he may be bluffing. He also says repeatedly that a main thrust of the antiterrorism force is to make potential terrorists believe that NYC is too difficult to attack. The suggestion that the NYPD can and would order a shoot down might be enough to have potential terrorists consider Boston, Philadelphia or Toronto rather than NYC. In that case it would not be required that NYC actually have that capability.
 
Question: Geographically, where does the jurisdiction of the NYPD end? Certainly, they can't pursue and kill people in NJ or CT just so, can they?

Follow-up question: Where would it make sense to shoot down aircraft - over your own city, or before it gets there?
 
Oystein said:
Question: Geographically, where does the jurisdiction of the NYPD end? Certainly, they can't pursue and kill people in NJ or CT just so, can they?

Follow-up question: Where would it make sense to shoot down aircraft - over your own city, or before it gets there?
Click to expand...


What on Earth led the interviewer to ask if the police department has anti-aircraft capabilities ?
 
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Oystein said:
Question: Geographically, where does the jurisdiction of the NYPD end? Certainly, they can't pursue and kill people in NJ or CT just so, can they?

Follow-up question: Where would it make sense to shoot down aircraft - over your own city, or before it gets there?
Click to expand...


I think it is perfectly plausible that they have the capability to take down a small aircraft. I am sure they have thought through several scenarios of terrorist acts using small craft.
 
I think I'd argue the logic of shooting down a plane over a crowded city. Unlike in the movies the plane does not disappear, it still hits the ground. In the first gulf war many reports say more damage was done shooting down the "scuds" than if they were just allowed to hit. An aircraft breaking up could spread the damage over a much larger area.

I think he's bluffing.
 
I think he got the anti-aircraft batteries from the Pentagon since they had to stash them quick before those pesky kids at CIT found them.

I'm also thinking he's bluffing. They may have some fanciful idea of getting a chopper up and a guy with a bazooka or shoulder-launched missile, but "real" anti-aircraft abilities? A bit far-fetched. (I'm always open to evidence, but it just sounds ludicrous.)
 
Animal said:
I think it is perfectly plausible that they have the capability to take down a small aircraft.
Click to expand...

Easy enough, give everyone a M16 (or whatever they use), and have them shoot up. If you put enough bullets in the air, it's rather probable some will hit and damage the aircraft.

Hey, nobody said it had to be an intelligent method...
 
Weapon commissioner Kelly is apparently referring to is Barrett .50 semi auto rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_M82

NYPD is known to have several of these rifles for the ESU (Emergency Service Unit)

Wonder if using this type of ammo - AP-HEI Raufoss MK 211

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raufoss_NM140_MP_(en).svg

The multipurpose name is based on the projectile having an armor-piercing (tungsten core), an explosive, and an incendiary component, thus making it capable of penetrating lightly armored targets and causing damage to personnel inside the target after penetration. It is a suitable round for engaging helicopters, aircraft and lightly armored vehicles, as well as unarmored vehicles, and it is capable of igniting jet fuel. The Mk.211 has about the same destructive power as a standard 20 mm round against such targets.[5]

The Mk 211 is a very popular .50 caliber sniper round, used in the Barrett M82 rifle, as well as other .50 BMG rifles.[5] It is also often used in heavy machine guns, for example the M2 Browning. Due to its popularity several U.S. arms manufacturers produce the round under license from NAMMO

Would probably be effective against light aircraft on some kind of kamikaze mission

Heavier caliber weapons, ie missiles in the STINGER class would be needed against
something as big as jet airliner

Considering how Manhattan streets are hemmed in by tall buildings would not have clear line of sight - have to be fired from helicopters
 
njslim said:
Weapon commissioner Kelly is apparently referring to is Barrett .50 semi auto rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_M82
Click to expand...

You can't shoot down an aircraft with a sniper rifle. There's a reason why P-38s, P-51s and P-47s had clusters of belt-fed fully automatic .50s for use against aircraft.

njslim said:
Wonder if using this type of ammo - AP-HEI Raufoss MK 211It is a suitable round for engaging helicopters, aircraft and lightly armored vehicles, as well as unarmored vehicles,
Click to expand...

If a hypothetical special forces sniper is hiding in the woods a mile outside an enemy airbase, he could disable parked aircraft on the ground with a .50 sniper rifle. Once they're airborne however, you gotta bring 'em down the old fashioned way.
 
Oystein said:
Question: Geographically, where does the jurisdiction of the NYPD end? Certainly, they can't pursue and kill people in NJ or CT just so, can they?
Click to expand...
Hot Pursuit (Wikipedia)

"In international treaty law, laws of federal states, or other legal rules governing cross-border police operations (such as the Schengen Agreement) when law enforcement officers and agents of one jurisdiction are allowed to cross the border into another jurisdiction in a pursuit of a fleeing criminal or for preventive police purposes."
 
Oystein said:
Question: Geographically, where does the jurisdiction of the NYPD end? Certainly, they can't pursue and kill people in NJ or CT just so, can they?

Follow-up question: Where would it make sense to shoot down aircraft - over your own city, or before it gets there?
Click to expand...

NYPD covers the 5 boroughs of NYC, its waterways, and airspace. They can pursue (and do) outside of their jurisdiction. I believe they just have to call it in. Usually the precincts on the borders have that stuff set up before hand. The county I live in (Suffolk) and the one next to it (Nassau) have gray areas where both PDs' patrols overlap. I've seen NYPD units with "customers" pulled over well into Nassau county.

ETA: Like papermache said lol.
 
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njslim said:
Weapon commissioner Kelly is apparently referring to is Barrett .50 semi auto rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_M82

NYPD is known to have several of these rifles for the ESU (Emergency Service Unit)

Wonder if using this type of ammo - AP-HEI Raufoss MK 211

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raufoss_NM140_MP_(en).svg

The multipurpose name is based on the projectile having an armor-piercing (tungsten core), an explosive, and an incendiary component, thus making it capable of penetrating lightly armored targets and causing damage to personnel inside the target after penetration. It is a suitable round for engaging helicopters, aircraft and lightly armored vehicles, as well as unarmored vehicles, and it is capable of igniting jet fuel. The Mk.211 has about the same destructive power as a standard 20 mm round against such targets.[5]

The Mk 211 is a very popular .50 caliber sniper round, used in the Barrett M82 rifle, as well as other .50 BMG rifles.[5] It is also often used in heavy machine guns, for example the M2 Browning. Due to its popularity several U.S. arms manufacturers produce the round under license from NAMMO

Would probably be effective against light aircraft on some kind of kamikaze mission

Heavier caliber weapons, ie missiles in the STINGER class would be needed against
something as big as jet airliner

Considering how Manhattan streets are hemmed in by tall buildings would not have clear line of sight - have to be fired from helicopters
Click to expand...

Don't bet on it.

I own and have trained on the Barrett, and bringing one to bear on flying aircraft would be more in the field of exhibition shooting rather than tactical deployment.

It is more probable that some type of crew served MG, possibly an M2, would be in inventory for AA use, and personally I don't like the idea.

I seriously doubt any type of SAM is in any state or local LEA inventories, NYPD included.
 
I thought the plan was to put NYPD officers on top of the WTC with shoulder fired missiles, conveniently stored in the north tower, in the northwest corner.

Oh, wait.
 
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