Merged nuclear power safe?

[Eddie Dane]

1 dead in blast at French nuclear plant, but no leak reported

Link

 

[ArcturusA]

So we have two incidents to do with energy technology in the news at the moment: this explosion at the French nuclear site, and Kenyan petrol pipeline fire.

The former has lead to 1 death and 1 serious injury, the latter to 100 deaths, 80 casualties and the destruction of many peoples' homes.

Do you think anyone's going to use the Kenyan disaster to try and argue that use of petrol is inherently unsafe, and should be abandoned in favour of electric alternatives?

 

[Eddie Dane]

So we have two incidents to do with energy technology in the news at the moment: this explosion at the French nuclear site, and Kenyan petrol pipeline fire.

The former has lead to 1 death and 1 serious injury, the latter to 100 deaths, 80 casualties and the destruction of many peoples' homes.

Do you think anyone's going to use the Kenyan disaster to try and argue that use of petrol is inherently unsafe, and should be abandoned in favour of electric alternatives?

You're leaving out the conspiracy theory aspect.

'No leak reported' means: 'the nuclear lobby has bought off the main stream media and all the science departments in the world depend on funding from the nuclear industry and the politicians are in bed with them and that is why I think that this accident will lead to the deaths of untold numbers of people'.

See how that works?

 

[kowalskil]

I’m never sure what people mean when they ask whether it’s safe. Safe relative to what? Compared to not having enough power?

Good point. Nothing is 100% save. The costs of benefits are risks. Are they worth taking or not? Which risks are more acceptable than others? Doing nothing can indeed be much more risky that doing something.

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
.

 

[Christian Klippel]

1 dead in blast at French nuclear plant, but no leak reported

Link

It's important to note that the facility is out of operation as nuclear plant for quite a while now. What exploded was an oven/furnace used to burn low radiation waste. At least that's what i got from the news over here in Germany.

Here's a link to the WP page of the site. The last reactor went offline in 1984, and the fast breeder there in 2010.

Greetings,

Chris

 

[Christian Klippel]

You're leaving out the conspiracy theory aspect.

'No leak reported' means: 'the nuclear lobby has bought off the main stream media and all the science departments in the world depend on funding from the nuclear industry and the politicians are in bed with them and that is why I think that this accident will lead to the deaths of untold numbers of people'.

See how that works?

You forgot to add the all-time classic line "And despite what they claim, this is far worse than Chernobyl!"

Greetings,

Chris

 

[Eddie Dane]

The populations of developing nations are apparently also really afraid of the cheapest, safest and cleanest form of mass energy generation.

Is Democracy Thwarting India’s Nuclear Power Ambitions?

India’s democratic process is changing the country’s nuclear energy program at startling speed.

First it was protests at the proposed nuclear power plant at Jaitapur in Maharashtra. Now it’s protests at the plant under construction at Kudankulam in Tamil Nadu, and at practically every site across the country that has been designated for a new power plant. And at most places, people’s concerns about the risks of nuclear power are clashing with the government’s plans to power the country with nuclear energy.

Link

 

[Eddie Dane]

But on the other hand:

Pro-Nuclear Japanese Mayor Wins Re-Election

TOKYO—A pro-nuclear-power mayor of a town known for a long-stalled reactor project defeated his antinuclear opponent Sunday in a blow to the antinuclear movement that has grown in Japan since the crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant.

According to officials in the southwestern town of Kaminoseki in Yamaguchi Prefecture, incumbent Shigemi Kashiwabara, 62, scored 1,868 votes in the closely watched election, more than twice the 905 votes recorded for his challenger, Sadao Yamato. About 88% of the town's 3,206 voters took part.

Since the March 11 tsunami crippled Fukushima Daiichi, support for nuclear power has eroded and an increasingly vocal antinuclear activism has risen across Japan. Mr. Yamato, 61, had called for a shift to renewable energy.

But the activists are up against a pro-nuclear lobby that is long-established and wide-reaching. And the decisive victory for the pro-nuclear mayor Sunday demonstrated that for people in towns with nuclear-plant construction plans, often in remote areas with few economic options, concerns about the industry may be outweighed by the jobs and revenue such projects can bring.

Link

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

wow...that truly speaks volumes about you....thanks for the eyeopener.

Bikerdruid, rich countries have public sanitation. Rich countries have water treatment plants. Rich countries have health care (even America). Rich countries have high adult literacy rates.

And all of these require energy to run.

It's an undeniable fact that quality of life is directly tied to wealth and cheap energy.

 

[Aepervius]

wow...that truly speaks volumes about you....thanks for the eyeopener.

That you don't understand that the population number in conjunction of quality of life is intrinsically linked to copious stable energy source, is quite telling indeed and speaks volume on you too.

 

[JihadJane]

That you don't understand that the population number in conjunction of quality of life is intrinsically linked to copious stable energy source, is quite telling indeed and speaks volume on you too.

You are misinformed. To keep our present economic system alive doesn't require a stable energy source, it requires an ever-growing energy source.

BTW, did you know that radioactive pollution gives children heart attacks?

 

[Aepervius]

You are misinformed. To keep our present economic system alive doesn't require a stable energy source, it requires an ever-growing energy source.

BTW, did you know that radioactive pollution gives children heart attacks?

1) I did not say *economic* system I said *quality of life* and while they are correlated at the moment, they are not the same thing.

2) Beside the fact that this is a big NON sequitur, the only statistic I know about heart attack *specifically* are actually the Psychological of fear in Chernobyl, which increased all sort of heart disease. Otherwise radioactivity can attack any organ so I am not sure what your point is. So link to an article for what you mean.

ETA: if you speak about this : this has been known for a while : http://www.llrc.org/health/subtopic/ecrrchapteronesynopsis.htm and the source I think
http://www.euradcom.org/publications/chernobylebook.pdf

ETAETA: After having read it I have to say : "so what ?". Highly radioactively polluted area is correlated to a load of disease (not only in children so you can keep your "who will think of the children" for you). That sort of non sequitur and what i call "appeal to Chernobyl horror" fallacy is exactly why I think everything which come from the "green party" side is rhetoric polluted and evil beyond redemption.

ETAETAETA: And coal burning make a load of respiratory and heart disease due to heavy metal pollution. And eating PCB is not good to health. Just like hitting yourself intentionally with a hammer. *SO WHAT* ?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

BTW, did you know that radioactive pollution gives children heart attacks?

Over the past few decades, however, a series of studies has called these stereotypes into question. Among the surprising conclusions: the waste produced by coal plants is actually more radioactive than that generated by their nuclear counterparts. In fact, the fly ash emitted by a power plant—a by-product from burning coal for electricity—carries into the surrounding environment 100 times more radiation than a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of energy.​

I guess we better build more nuke plants then, huh Jihad?

 

[bikerdruid]

Bikerdruid, rich countries have public sanitation. Rich countries have water treatment plants. Rich countries have health care (even America). Rich countries have high adult literacy rates.

And all of these require energy to run.

It's an undeniable fact that quality of life is directly tied to wealth and cheap energy.

it is also an undeniable fact that mankind must acquire a different way of thinking if we are to survive.
the old paradigms are destructive and genocidal.

 

[Toke]

it is also an undeniable fact that mankind must acquire a different way of thinking if we are to survive.
the old paradigms are destructive and genocidal.

You are making an assumption that enviromental destruction and wars, genocidal or not, are a danger to our survival as a species.
Sure, WWIII would be, but othervise it is "just" a problem to the people affected.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

it is also an undeniable fact that mankind must acquire a different way of thinking if we are to survive.

Indeed.

We need to stop being ignorant and superstitious about nuclear energy. We need to stop giving attention to those who are and won't change.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Putting the whole energy use, wealth and quality of life in terms even Biker and Jihad can understand:

That's north and south korea from space at night. Which of the two do you think is wealthier? Which uses more energy? Which has the higher quality of life?

Bonus questions: Which has a larger and more influential environmentalist movement? Which has more nuclear reactors?

 

[Eddie Dane]

Fukushima Nuclear Worker Dies

TOKYO—A worker hired to help bring the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant under control died suddenly Thursday—the third fatality reported among workers at the stricken plant since the March accident.

Plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. said it believed the death, like the previous two, had nothing to do with exposure to radiation in the plant. It also said the death did not result from overwork, though the company didn't disclose the cause.

Tepco said a male worker in his 50s became ill during a meeting Wednesday morning, before his shift started. He was taken to a hospital immediately, and died the next morning.

Link

 

[Cuddles]

Japan's crude death rate is ~10 per thousand per year. That article suggests far more than 3,700 people are likely to have been working at the Fukushima plant since the accident. That would mean at least 18 people would be expected to have died. Even taking into account that the actual death rate for the relevant age group is probably significantly lower (I couldn't find anything other than crude rate and infant mortality, although admittedly I didn't try that hard), only 3 deaths in several thousand people suggests that the workers are actually healthier than normal.

 

[Prometheus]

Japan's crude death rate is ~10 per thousand per year. That article suggests far more than 3,700 people are likely to have been working at the Fukushima plant since the accident. That would mean at least 18 people would be expected to have died. Even taking into account that the actual death rate for the relevant age group is probably significantly lower (I couldn't find anything other than crude rate and infant mortality, although admittedly I didn't try that hard), only 3 deaths in several thousand people suggests that the workers are actually healthier than normal.

Perhaps here. I'm not sure as I don't have spreadsheet software on this device, so I can't open the file yet.