Nuclear Energy - I need to vent/rant

There is one more point I'd like to raise. At Koeberg the reactor operators are trained to deal with just about every eventuality and like airline pilots they have a manual with a checklist that has to be followed in cases of emergency.

The chief objective of the reactor operators is to maintain containment and shut down the core in the event of serious problems in a safe manner. However, if something happens that threatens containment (like, say the core has melted through the floor and is in danger of melting through the containment building), the RO's are instructed to call the off-site disaster management centre which is manned 24hrs a day by highly-trained specialised staff.

The people at this centre have a COMPLETELY different perspective and the actions that they take are all motivated by the need to keep exposure and leakage to a minimum. They have entirely different procedures and methods than the RO's.

I'm not sure if this is how it works at all nuclear plants or just Koeberg (can anyone tell me?)

The idea here being that the RO's are interested in keeping the plant online and the core safe and approach things from that perspective - the disaster guys don't give a ◊◊◊◊ about the core or the people manning the plant - their sole objective is to keep contamination at bay and their procedures reflect that priority (often to the detriment of anyone unlucky enough to be on-shift at the plant).

Also, the containment building (at Koeberg at least) is designed to withstand a directed strike by a 747 or a cruise missile an maintain structural integrity. The entire plant is built on a raft of rollers in order to ensure it can withstand an earthquake of magnitude 8 on the richter scale without any damage to the containment building.

I don't think people realise the level of redundancy built into these plants and the extent to which people have planned for every single eventuality.
 
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Here is why: the criticality of a reactor is dependent not merely upon the amount of nuclear material present, and not merely upon the amount of fissionable nuclear material present, but also upon the presence of not merely neutrons, but neutrons of the appropriate energy level. The majority of neutrons released during fission are too fast to be absorbed by the U-235 nucleus; they must be slowed to increase the probability of absorption, which is required for fission. The materials that slow the neutrons are called "moderators." Without these materials, the neutrons are too fast, and the mass of fissionable material becomes subcritical. In a civilian reactor, only 5% of the uranium present is fissionable U-235, and that's only just after refueling; the other 95% is non-fissionable U-238. If the fuel melts, those proportions will be the same; there is no difference in melting point between the two isotopes. Without the moderator, the mass is subcritical and will not continue to react.

No matter what happens, if something goes wrong, the reaction stops. In the worst case, the entire bundle of fuel rods melts into a puddle of slag at the bottom of the containment, and the reaction stops. Nothing gets out of the containment.


this is all true, but there is an important source of the neutrons that make the reactor safer still.

Some of the neutrons that keep the reaction self sustaining come from the fission products, and are delayed as they isotopes responsible must decay according to their half-lives. This means there is a time delay inherent in the reactor that limits the speed at which the reactor power level increases. Until a point is reached where the reactor goes, what is called prompt critical, which is what happened at Cherynoble.

There was also another prompt criticality accident, in Idaho in the early days and as a result all US reactors are designed to limit the amount of reactivity that can be added to a reactor. Single stuck rod and still able to shut down etc.

Also the industry has made significant changes in how operations are conducted such that an accident like 3 mile island is less likely to happen. I worked at a Nuclear plant that the NRC shut down for nearly 2 years due to concerns about maintenance of reactor safety systems.

They have the NRC and industry sponsored groups such as INPO to regulate the industry.

They learn from their mistakes and the Industry continues to get safer.

but you are wrong about technicium

from

http://www.dayah.com/periodic/

Beside technetium, promethium is one of the two elements with atomic number less than 83 that have only unstable isotopes, which is a rarely occurring effect of the liquid drop model and stabilities of neighbor element isotopes.

Oh, and reactors that use Zirconium to house the ceramic uranium can't melt down as they catch on fire before they melt, using water as their source of oxygen, which is what happened at TMI.

Cheers
 
If a nuclear plant suffers catastrophic failure, land areas the size of US states can be made unlivable for decades, perhaps longer. The number of people killed outright or by radiation induced disease can be conservatively estimated at tens of thousands.

Where in the blue hell did you get those silly figures ?
 
And as far as me being hysterical: Better safe than dead my friend.

That's a fine life philosophy.

You know, you could get electrocuted in your own home. Better let go of that silly electricity. Better safe than dead, my friend.

But then again, who doesn't distort facts to bolster their own position?

That's another fine life philosophy. If you don't care about honesty or truth, then I have nothing more to say to you.
 
In regards to an earlier comment on nuclear disasters...

What is the power source with the greatest danger of a catastrophic failure resulting in great loss of life and extreme destruction of communities?

Hydroelectric

Hey, don't knock hydrolectricity. At least it doesn't damage the environment with toxic radiatioactive byproducts...

Oh... yeah, but we DO flood gigantic areas, don't we ? :D
 
That's a fine life philosophy.

You know, you could get electrocuted in your own home. Better let go of that silly electricity. Better safe than dead, my friend.
Oooh, and you're statistically FAR more likely to be hit by a car than killed by almost any other way. Better stay home... better safe than sorry.

That's another fine life philosophy. If you don't care about honesty or truth, then I have nothing more to say to you.
Aw, what's wrong with a little fact distortion? It's not like anyone cares about petty things like facts and reality, anyways. As long as you can make stuff up, THAT'S what matters. :D
 
Such as ?

That was my question but I figured it was just a poorly worded post. I suppose you could heat the U and then apply it to the skin...but that would be a thermal burn, not a radiation burn. Then again, it depends on how you define "burn". I guess in theory, any exposure is a "burn", albeit even so slight as to not have any effect whatsoever.
 
That was my question but I figured it was just a poorly worded post. I suppose you could heat the U and then apply it to the skin...but that would be a thermal burn, not a radiation burn. Then again, it depends on how you define "burn". I guess in theory, any exposure is a "burn", albeit even so slight as to not have any effect whatsoever.

I was thinking about crushing the uranium in your fist until it reaches critical mass, but I don't know if I could do that :D
 
I was thinking about crushing the uranium in your fist until it reaches critical mass, but I don't know if I could do that :D
Are you planning on making it into the Guinness Book of World Records, or getting the Darwin Award? From the sounds of it, you're headed for both. :D
 
Actually, isn't there a spot somewhere that's thought to be the remnants of a natural, spontaneous fission event? I can't recall any details, but I seem to remember something of the sort. I'll search if I have to, but this is one of those odd facts I'm sure someone here knows, if it's got any truth to it at all :).
 
Actually, isn't there a spot somewhere that's thought to be the remnants of a natural, spontaneous fission event? I can't recall any details, but I seem to remember something of the sort. I'll search if I have to, but this is one of those odd facts I'm sure someone here knows, if it's got any truth to it at all :).

Yes, it's in Africa. Couldn't happen today; Isotope ratios change over time.
 
Yes, it's in Africa. Couldn't happen today; Isotope ratios change over time.

Yeah, well :p

But you gotta admit, that might cause radiation burns if someone stood next to it while it was "burning".

Of course, this would require a time machine...

ETA: Thanks for the link, Rob. I knew I wasn't crazy (at least, not in that way) :)
 
Such as ?
The options I had in mind are all covered by the former rule 8. :D

I bet if you made cloth-of-uranium out of it, and made underpants out of that, and wore them, you might get some burns. Probably take a few months, though.

Like I said, REALLY stupid.
 
I have a DU round on my desk. Sure, it's only Du but it's enough to keep my brother in law from visiting.
 
I have a DU round on my desk. Sure, it's only Du but it's enough to keep my brother in law from visiting.

Where did you get it? Do you have any more? How much for it?

My understanding is that DU rounds are legal to own and such, if they're expended and no longer claimed by the military, but they're hard to find. They show up on eBay once in a while. I have a couple tiny pieces of DU scrap.

I highly doubt that uranium underpants would burn... maybe be a bit uncomfortable though.

I wonder how many people realize that from 1959 until the line was discontinued in the 1970's "Fiestaware" used depleted uranoium oxides in their "red" colored dinnerware and sold millions many of which are still in the cupboards of people all over the place and still eaten off of to this day.

The small amount of uranium which might be leached from the glaze is not considered a hazard and the radiation is minimal. It's not anything to be concerned about. But there's more than enough to light up a geiger counter from a good few feet away.
 

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