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NPR: Nuclear Deception in Pakistan?

Arkan_Wolfshade

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So, I'm listening to NPR's Fresh Air on the way home from work today and catch the second half of the following story
Fresh Air from WHYY, November 13, 2007 · In a new book, two British investigative journalists dig into the story of Pakistan's clandestine nuclear network — and America's role not just in condoning its ally's nuclear ambitions, but aiding them.
Adrian Levy and Catherine Scott-Clark are senior correspondents for the Guardian newspaper; both previously worked for the Sunday Times of London.
Their book is titled Deception: Pakistan, the United States, and the Secret Trade in Nuclear Weapons.
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Aside from just being fascinating, this also struck me as a specific issue that everyone that partakes in this sub-forum can contribute to discussing (perhaps even work together on).

The NPR site http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16251052 has a link to allow you to listen to the episode.

The short story? The US knew, and turned a blind eye to, Pakistan's development of nukes; and later added them by selling them necessary components/supplies. The irony then being, that the US never got the expected reciprocation for doing so; and ended up going after countries whom Pakistan had sold the developed technology to, such as Iran.
 
The audio is well worth the listen. The picture painted is not pretty; and starts during the Carter administration and runs until present.

ETA: I thought here, not not politics, was more appropriate since it does span multiple administrations, multiple countries leaderships, etc
 
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Just listened to it. It's a chilling story. We (the US) are not very good at this stuff, are we?
 
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Gravy said:
Just listened to it. It's a chilling story. We (the US) are not very good at this stuff, are we?
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Quite. How many times now has it been that the US has done something not quite on the up-and-up expecting a certain positive payback, only to have it not happen; or worse yet; exploited against us?

I'd say, from what I heard on the way home, this is perhaps more expansive then some of the previous debacles, in that, it includes the Executive Branch, the Pentagon, perhaps parties from Europe.

eta: CTists want to do what kind of conspiracies (using the "conspiracy theory" defn) we believe in? Well, I can't say I "believe" the info in the OP as I am not familiar with all the facts (part of the reason I posted this); but perhaps this can demonstrate or serve as example that we are not lock-step shills (except for those of us that are).
 
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I find this very likely.

US policy is littered with poorly thought out policies that turn into long-term disasters.

I get the feeling that Iraq will be the latest such example.
 
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If I remember the latter part of the Cold War correctly, India had closer relations with the Soviets than the United States, so the U.S. helping out Pakistan might have been seen as balancing out the power structure in the region as well as balancing out the Cold War spheres of influence, at least until the Cold War ended.
 
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Corsair 115 said:
If I remember the latter part of the Cold War correctly, India had closer relations with the Soviets than the United States, so the U.S. helping out Pakistan might have been seen as balancing out the power structure in the region as well as balancing out the Cold War spheres of influence, at least until the Cold War ended.
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That and, when the Soviets took Kabul, and we lost our listening posts when the Shah took over Iran; suddenly Pakistan became geographically veryimportant.

That said, the authors certainly paint a picture that things went well beyond this to the point of the US gov't willfully ignoring Pakistan's actions (such as purchasing ballistic missile blueprints from N. Korea).
 
Didn't Pakistan get the bomb in 1998?

Cold War politics should have been laid to rest by then.
 
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Pakistan/PakOrigin.html

On May 28, 1998 Pakistan announced that it had successfully conducted five nuclear tests. The Pakistani Atomic Energy Commission reported that the five nuclear tests conducted on May 28 generated a seismic signal of 5.0 on the Richter scale, with a total yield of up to 40 KT (equivalent TNT). Dr. A.Q. Khan claimed that one device was a boosted fission device and that the other four were sub-kiloton nuclear devices.
On May 30, 1998 Pakistan tested one more nuclear warhead with a reported yield of 12 kilotons. The tests were conducted at Balochistan, bringing the total number of claimed tests to six. It has also been claimed by Pakistani sources that at least one additional device, initially planned for detonation on 30 May 1998, remained emplaced underground ready for detonation.
Pakistani claims concerning the number and yields of their underground tests cannot be independently confirmed by seismic means, and several sources, such as the Southern Arizona Seismic Observatory have reported lower yields than those claimed by Pakistan. Indian sources have also suggested that as few as two weapons were actually detonated, each with yields considerably lower than claimed by Pakistan. However, seismic data showed at least two and possibly a third, much smaller, test in the initial round of tests at the Ras Koh range. The single test on 30 May provided a clear seismic signal.
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http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/pakistan/nuke/index.html
 
Hopefully, if some truthers decide to join in on this thread we can keep it focused to the OP. To quote a relevant movie, "Gentlemen! There is no fighting in the war room!"
 
Gravy said:
Just listened to it. It's a chilling story. We (the US) are not very good at this stuff, are we?
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This is a typical a regular chink in our nation's foreign policy. Also:
Corsair 115 said:
If I remember the latter part of the Cold War correctly, India had closer relations with the Soviets than the United States, so the U.S. helping out Pakistan might have been seen as balancing out the power structure in the region as well as balancing out the Cold War spheres of influence, at least until the Cold War ended.
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This is one of the reasons it was done. It's also one of the reasons, for instance, a blind eye was turned toward the Israeli program.

It's all about trying to keep a balance of power wieghted in the favor of the US. Our administrations just seem to excel at getting a lot of important aspects of such a practice nearly completely wrong. I have some opinions on they 'why' of that, but that's more a political discussion.
 
CHF said:
Didn't Pakistan get the bomb in 1998?

Cold War politics should have been laid to rest by then.
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Pakistan's program began in 1972, under Prime Minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, in response to India's program. India's first test occurred in 1974. Abdul Qadeer Khan (A.Q. Khan) began working with the program in 1975. Pakistan had a design by 1978, and conducted its first "cold test" in 1983. By 1985, Pakistan had weapons-grade uranium.

By 1987, they had the capability to detonate a nuclear weapon, but held off until India carried out its second test in May 1998. Pakistan followed suit with nuclear tests.
 
I'm surprised; I figured this was close enough to the whole Pakistani ISI thread that there would be at least some interest in it by CTists. I mean, backroom dealings between nations resulting in nuclear proliferation. I'll reserve further comments/analysis on this thought until later.
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
I'm surprised; I figured this was close enough to the whole Pakistani ISI thread that there would be at least some interest in it by CTists. I mean, backroom dealings between nations resulting in nuclear proliferation. I'll reserve further comments/analysis on this thought until later.
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I think this story is a bit too believable to get any substantial attention from the CTists.
 
Stories that show up the incompetance and short-sightedness of the government are pretty difficult to integrate into the many-tentacled octopus of the JEWminati model of leadership that many CTists hold.
 
Well, I'm now going to posit that this is more evidence of the insincerity and laziness of the "Truth Movement". Given a topic that has been brought to light on at least on e MSM source, is not immediately dismissed or debunked by critical thinkers, and could lend credence to the idea of global level backroom dealings; but is not touted by their cult leader Alex Jones and, if delved into, could actually cause a shake-up of the status quo; and they are completely, utterly silent on the issue.

They don't want change, they want someone to whom they can play the underdog against.

They don't want action, they want to feel oppressed.

They don't want to see the status quo upset, they want to be able to "stick it to the man".

They don't want to do work, they want to be ansty, whiny emos.

Epic fail, "Truth Movement," epic fail.
 
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