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Merged Now What?

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Tolls said:
That's not what an "enabler" is.
It would help if you used the definition of the actual word used:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/enabler

It works for the bigotry bit (I think), but not sure how it you can be an "enabler of recession".
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Yes, that would mean that it is possible to "commit recession". But in the following meaning of the word, perhaps yes.

"The withdrawal in a line or file of participants in a ceremony, especially clerics and choir members after a church service. "

That sort of recession would be "enabled" by someone opening the door to let them out.
 
Tolls said:
That's not what an "enabler" is.
It would help if you used the definition of the actual word used:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/enabler

It works for the bigotry bit (I think), but not sure how it you can be an "enabler of recession".
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An enabler is someone who enables. From your link:

A person or thing that makes something possible:
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How can someone by voting make racist abuse possible, when it was already possibly previously?
 
MikeG said:
How can someone by voting make racist abuse possible, when it was already possibly previously?
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It indicates support for a campaign that was heavily based on demonising foreigners.

Racism is seen as a bad thing by most people. However, racists will link the leave campaigns negative stereotyping of foreigners with the result and (incorrectly) assume that the majority of the country wants to get rid of foreigners.

So voting leave does not make you directly responsible but when you get in bed with racists they will assume you like them and are willing to support them.

Of course you may have another theory why we have seen a rise of racist attacks reported in the social and professional media since the vote.....
 
It makes it more acceptable.
It enables it to be more out in the open, rather than grumbling behind closed doors about "those sorts of people".

I think that's the current argument, though I would like to see some actual figures, which I expect are rather hard to find. There's lots of anecdotes about increased verbal abuse, but as with shark attacks, it is possible that's just a case of more twitterings about it than an actual increase in events.
 
Tolls said:
It makes it more acceptable.
It enables it to be more out in the open, rather than grumbling behind closed doors about "those sorts of people".

I think that's the current argument, though I would like to see some actual figures, which I expect are rather hard to find. There's lots of anecdotes about increased verbal abuse, but as with shark attacks, it is possible that's just a case of more twitterings about it than an actual increase in events.
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From the Guardian 27 June.
Police believe there has been an increase in hate crimes and community tensions since last week’s referendum. Initial figures show an increase of 57% in reported incidents between Thursday and Sunday compared with the same days four weeks earlier, the National Police Chiefs’ Council said – 85 incidents were reported compared with 54 during the earlier period.​
I don't know how significant that is.
 
Mader Levap said:
everyone that voted Leave IS enabler of bigotry and recession, regardless of actual reason for voting Leave.
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Bit like anyone who voted for a Westminster party that was in favour of Northern Ireland staying part of the UK in the last 45 years enabled the troubles?

Yeah useful!
 
catsmate said:
I may be picking nits but:
UK/European autumn/fall ≠ USAian autumn/fall
Third quarter = July through September ≠ anyone's autumn/fall
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Maybe not so much picking of nits.

Like some other words ("soccer" comes to mind), this usage of the word "fall" was an English one that was carried to the American colonies along with English immigrants.

The meaning was preserved and continued in the U.S. while it was gradually abandoned in England.

Once again we're more true to the original language than the English are.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
<snip>

There would be no point in creating artificial zones of say 1m people each if those zones were meaningless in any real way and equally you couldn't sensibly say that every one of the political constituencies must vote yes in order for a yes vote to be legitimate.

Anything you did in that respect would be seen as merely trying to stack the deck to get the result you want.

<snip>
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Here in the states that is a time honored political practice referred to as "gerrymandering". Every ten years after the national census whichever party holds power in any given state gleefully tries to rig the Congressional districts as much as possible in their favor. Limited only by some rare and lukewarm restraint from the courts.

The other party protests the wicked immorality and blatant self-interest of it at the cost of allowing voters fair representation.

When the party winds change and the other party is in control then roles are reversed. (No surprise there. Neither consistency nor sincerity are a prerequisite for office.)

There are some very bizarrely shaped Congressional districts. And there are nearly always challenges to somebody's attempts at redistricting somewhere pending in some court or another.
 
Tolls said:
It makes it more acceptable.
It enables it to be more out in the open, rather than grumbling behind closed doors about "those sorts of people".......
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Ja, but that wasn't the wording. If the poster had said "emboldened" s/he wouldn't have had an argument from me. But s/he didn't. Saying "enabled" is a very different thing, laying the entirety of the blame for any racist attack on everyone who voted Leave, which is indefensibly beyond stupid.
 
McHrozni said:
This 'victory' will cost him a comfortable and well-paying job.

McHrozni
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As a former MEP he will anyway get a very comfortable pension paid (in euros) by the European Union because he has been member of the EP for (much) more than 5 years.

To the best of my knowledge the treaties and the other EU legal provisions are silent about the pensions allocated to MEPs belonging to countries withdrawing of the EU on the basis of Article 50.

One could of course imagine the European Parliament votes a decision withdrawing the pension of all former UK MEPs. But should this happen they (including Farage, thus) would get a fair chance to challenge it successfully in front of the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg, IMHO.

One could also imagine that Farage will renounce himself to the pension as he wants to cut all links with the EU, which he really despises. But for some reasons I really doubt this has any chance to happen.
 
Degeneve said:
As a former MEP he will anyway get a very comfortable pension paid (in euros) by the European Union because he has been member of the EP for (much) more than 5 years.

To the best of my knowledge the treaties and the other EU legal provisions are silent about the pensions allocated to MEPs belonging to countries withdrawing of the EU on the basis of Article 50.

One could of course imagine the European Parliament votes a decision withdrawing the pension of all former UK MEPs. But should this happen they (including Farage, thus) would get a fair chance to challenge it successfully in front of the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg, IMHO.

One could also imagine that Farage will renounce himself to the pension as he wants to cut all links with the EU, which he really despises. But for some reasons I really doubt this has any chance to happen.
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I can't be certain I am right, but I think a large part of the funding of UKIP over the years has been from the salaries/ allowances/ expenses of their MEPs being pooled and given to the party. No doubt the MEPs got/ get something out of it, but I do recall reading that the EU was actually indirectly and inadvertently funding the anti-EU UKIP this way.
 
MikeG said:
Let's have a look at this then shall we. Here is what he/she said:



Enable.




If one enables X by an action, it is logical that X was not enabled previously. Follow? "I enable the tree creeper to escape from the house by opening the window" means the poor bird couldn't get out until I enabled it by my action.

There was nothing about the state of the country which prevented nauseating racist behaviour before the referendum. Agreed? (Otherwise you will have to demonstrate that there was no such incidents, which is ridiculous). Ergo, there was nothing enabled by the referendum which wasn't possible previously.

Therefore you are wrong on the "enabler of bigotry" accusation, to go along with you ignorance of the meaning of the word "recession".
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No, not agreed, as I explained above. (Your sophistry in asking for a demonstration of no incidents of racism is more indication that you are not an honest partner in dialogue, by the way. :rolleyes: )

It is clear that "enabling" racism is not the granting of a legal right, or whatever you imply, but the signalling that it is okay to express racism, whereas until the Brexit result, the previous several decades of cultural development in this country has been to make expressing racist feelings uncool. The whole thrust has been towards nonracism, and anyone with feelings of racism has felt proscribed increasingly over the years from expressing such sentiment.

That much is obvious, and your protestations here are equally obviously the work of a disingenuous mind, or a mind with a habit of disingenuous argument, as I have pointed out twice before already in your straw man tactics.

As indeed you demonstrate when you bang on about recession. I have not argued that recession is enabled by the vote… Mader Levap misspoke in his phrasing, but I and everyone else can see that he meant the Brexit result makes recession a much more likely condition of this country over the next few months. But I have said nothing about recession, only that I don't trust you to speak straight on anything, let alone your competence as an economics analyst.

The point I responded to in your original twisting of Mader Levap's phrasing was the point about enabling racism, and you know it. Banging on about recession in an attempt to portray my arguments as ignorant or stupid is just your smoke screen to distract from my rebuttal of your initial mistake (which I feel must be intentional on your part, since your rhetoric is all dependant on your straw man).
 
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McHrozni said:
Not really, it's just the only logical reason why he would want to put the UK in as difficult position as possible.

It also could be he's just a full-blown moron, but seeing as he is able to walk on two feet and either speak or at least emulate human speech better than most birds, I doubt that's the case.

McHrozni
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Notice that Farage managed to squeeze himself into a very busy news cycle, which is, I think, motivation enough for Farage.
 
Lothian said:
It indicates support for a campaign that was heavily based on demonising foreigners.

Racism is seen as a bad thing by most people. However, racists will link the leave campaigns negative stereotyping of foreigners with the result and (incorrectly) assume that the majority of the country wants to get rid of foreigners.
So voting leave does not make you directly responsible but when you get in bed with racists they will assume you like them and are willing to support them.

Of course you may have another theory why we have seen a rise of racist attacks reported in the social and professional media since the vote.....
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Precisely. The meaning has been crystal clear all along, and this sophistry in quibbling over dictionary definitions when the meaning of the phrase is understood by all speakers of colloquial English is just as I said, a smokescreen and a distraction. A typical tactic of disingenuous people making disingenuous arguments.
 
asydhouse said:
It is clear that "enabling" racism is not the granting of a legal right, or whatever you imply, but the signalling that it is okay to express racism, whereas until the Brexit result, the previous several decades of cultural development in this country has been to make expressing racist feelings uncool. The whole thrust has been towards nonracism, and anyone with feelings of racism has felt proscribed increasingly over the years from expressing such sentiment.
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Indeed. That's why "Muslim" is the new "Paki". It's all about culture, not race, these days.
 
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