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Merged Now What?

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Captain_Swoop said:
Tory MP and Whip Heather Wheeler claims the British Empire won the Olympics with 396 medals compared to 320 for Rest of the World and 256 for the EU (Post Brexit)

"Empire goes for Gold" and "Now for the trade agreements"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-37163416
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Has she added Latin America and the Netherlands to the Spanish Imperial total, except for Brazil, which must go to Portugal.

What about the USA? Britannia should claim that too. And the Republic of Ireland's modest two silver medals? Ireland falls into both categories: the Empire, and post Brexit EU. Mmm. Another "Irish Question".
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Tory MP and Whip Heather Wheeler claims the British Empire won the Olympics with 396 medals compared to 320 for Rest of the World and 256 for the EU (Post Brexit)

"Empire goes for Gold" and "Now for the trade agreements"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-37163416
Click to expand...
Has she added Latin America and the Netherlands to the Spanish Imperial total, except for Brazil, which must go to Portugal?

What about the USA? Britannia should claim that too. And the Republic of Ireland's modest two silver medals? Ireland falls into both categories: the Empire, and post Brexit EU. Mmm. Another "Irish Question".
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Tory MP and Whip Heather Wheeler claims the British Empire won the Olympics with 396 medals compared to 320 for Rest of the World and 256 for the EU (Post Brexit)

"Empire goes for Gold" and "Now for the trade agreements"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-37163416
Click to expand...

Yet another example of the Brexit mentality at work....

Of course it's not all about the "good old days" when worthy oriental gentlemen began at Calais :rolleyes:
 
Worth a read:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...mists-not-journalists-for-truth-a7205016.html

A sample:

But finally they would also note that if the depreciation in sterling we saw as the vote was announced is permanent, that means every person in the UK is poorer as a result. That has to be reflected in lower consumption eventually.

What does a journalist say confronted with the same evidence? If they voted for Brexit they say economists forecast Armageddon, and it has not happened. They say “it is obvious that the sky has not fallen in as a result of the referendum, and those who said it would look a bit silly.”

This is an old trick. Completely exaggerate what the other side says, and then cry victory when that exaggerated fiction does not come to pass. I remember 2013, and how the first sign of UK growth (growth in income per head that was at best on trend, rather than above trend as you would expect in a recovery) was proclaimed as vindication of 2010 austerity. When I pointed out that this argument made zero economic sense, I was referred to statements by someone or other that said growth would never happen under austerity. Of course they did: when governments are doing stuff that is causing serious harm and appear not to be listening it is human nature to overstate your case.
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Lothian said:
Why do you not celebrate the decline of the UK steal industry because of China's dumped steel?
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You do realise that the carbon cost of importing the stuff is massive.

It's a fundamental building block and an essential component of our economy.
If you want to make a shopping centre these days, you build it from steel.
To build a skyscraper for a bank or insurance company, you need steel.
Railways need steel.
Car manufacturing needs steel.
Supermarkets need steel.

Making it here carries less of a carbon cost than transporting it half way across the world, on a ship made from steel.
 
Airfix said:
Making it here carries less of a carbon cost than transporting it half way across the world, on a ship made from steel.
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As long as we don't then export it half way across the world; or if we do, perhaps we could use a wooden sailing clipper, like the Cutty Sark.
 
Airfix said:
You do realise that the carbon cost of importing the stuff is massive.

It's a fundamental building block and an essential component of our economy.
If you want to make a shopping centre these days, you build it from steel.
To build a skyscraper for a bank or insurance company, you need steel.
Railways need steel.
Car manufacturing needs steel.
Supermarkets need steel.

Making it here carries less of a carbon cost than transporting it half way across the world, on a ship made from steel.
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Goalpost shifting. My reply was in response to your support for state intervention in the steel industry. The green aspects is a new addition.

But I am happy to carry on playing.

I assume with your distaste for fossil fuel depletion you will oppose exports from the UK and will support high import tarrifs to make high carbon imports less attractive.
 
We're already subsidising the farming industry to the point of subsidising empty fields.
So what's your problem with state aid in other sectors ?

I want to state subsidise steel to keep factories open and workers in work.

If you have a problem with the dumping of state subsidised products, why don't you have a problem with the EU's policy of dumping of subsidised foodstuffs into African countries that undercut local farmers with devastating results.
http://www.irinnews.org/report/83980/ghana-plummeting-profits-drive-tomato-farmers-suicide
There have been suicides because of CAP food dumping.

Do not make assumptions about me.

Next point.
Coal power stations need to be replaced by cleaner alternatives when they become available in sufficient numbers and that will more or less be the end of mining in Britain when it happens, but until watt for watt replaements are online, we need coal power stations and imports do more damage to the environment than local production as they have to be transported further.

To make cleaner alternatives, we need metals (such as steel) yes ?

We need to be manufacturing our own steel. Imports are worse for the environment.

Idealy there needs to come a time when countries only import things they cannot make or grow for themselves.
The future of this country should not be solely based around services. We need to be manufacturing stuff.

We need to consider the development and production of renewable fuels for aircraft, possibly based upon bio ethanol and if required, develop new engine technology to burn those fuels.

Even people who deny climate change need to accept that one day, fossil fuels will run out.
And we need to be working on replacements now.

Replacements for Kerosene, will probably need accreditation. It needs to become cheaper to research, develop, evaluate and accredit products than the current REACH system which was designed with conglomorates and big companies in mind, not small businesses.

I will of course oppose unnecessary exports from the UK like fighter jets tanks and artillery systems.

But if we have a product to export that brings down CO2 output, logistics which are more friendly for the environment, I would consider those things extremely necessary and I would absolutely support their export.
 
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But we are among the best at making fighter jets, tanks and artillery. They provide lots of high quality employmrnt and they are very profitable.
 
And very subsidised.
SIPRI table of UK arms export subsidies, 2009/10
Subsidy type £ million
UKTI DSO 15.8
Military attachés 20.0
Use of armed forces 5.3
Defence Assistance Fund 5.0
Official visits 5.0
Missile Defence Centre 5.0
Direct distortion 5.0
ECGD 75.4
Sub-total 136.5
Development * 562.4
Grand total 698.9

https://www.caat.org.uk/issues/jobs-economy/subsidies

My problem with arms exports is that all too often, British made weapons go to repressive regimes, where the products do much harm and no good.

Some good things happened in the New Labour years, where the export licensing rules were tightened up and transshipments became more difficult, but I fear there is still much work to do to improve the ethics of our arms trade.
 
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Airfix, the trouble with British subsidies for industries is that these will make trade deals harder.
 
We do have a good hand of cards here though, 16% the EU's exports come to us. We're the EU's largest single export market.
the_eu_s_largest_single_export_market_.png

Would it really be in their interests to have a tantrum over subsidy ?
 
Do you think that will change much whatever happens?
We will still want BMWs, Mercedes, Audi etc.
Italian and French fashions will still be worn.
We will still drink Wine and eat cheese snd bslsamic vinager.
Most of the flowers in florists will still come from Holland.
A lot of imports from the EU are prestige and high end items, those that buy thrm won't switch to domestic items with a perceived lower status, in fact higher price will increase their ststus to a certain extent.
 
Airfix said:
We do have a good hand of cards here though, 16% the EU's exports come to us. We're the EU's largest single export market.
[qimg]https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/the_eu_s_largest_single_export_market_.png[/qimg]
Would it really be in their interests to have a tantrum over subsidy ?
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There would be no tantrum from the EU, they would however block imports of subsidised British steel. You will recall that the rest of the EU wanted to block imports of Chinese steel but the UK blocked it.
Given that 44% of our exports go you the EU we are not in any bargaining position to demand they ignore what they consider an illegal state subsidy.

However this is hypothetical. Key people behind Brexit, certainly Farage, are keen on us importing chesp goods from the far east. They don't mind the end of UK based manufacturing. They see it bringing more wealth to the country if production can be outsourced more cheaply. James Dyson, a probrexiteer role models this 'future'. Design in the UK, manufacture in Malaysia.
Of course the extra wealth in the UK may end in far fewer pockets but you knew which side of the political fence the Brexiteers came from.
 
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Airfix said:
We do have a good hand of cards here though, 16% the EU's exports come to us. We're the EU's largest single export market.
Click to expand...

Well, apart from intra-EU exports which is kinda the reason for the EU.

If I'm an EU member and 99% of my exports go to other EU countries, although another country accounts for all of my non-EU exports, it still only accounts for 1% of my total exports.

tl;dr version: Misleading graph is deliberately misleading
 
Airfix said:
We do have a good hand of cards here though, 16% the EU's exports come to us. We're the EU's largest single export market.
[qimg]https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/the_eu_s_largest_single_export_market_.png[/qimg]
Would it really be in their interests to have a tantrum over subsidy ?
Click to expand...

Do you think that number will be unaffected by the minor detail of us leaving the EU?

And once again looking at the total EU number is meaningless in terms of what individual member states will gain/lose.
 
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