NOVA program: Judgement Day, Intelligent Design on Trial

shadron said:
But if god created it it must be capable. Even if he had to permanently bend the laws of physics/chemistry/biology that operate. Otherwise he is caprecious, something such a being shouldn't be (I suppose; doesn't seem like a "perfect" attribute).

Oh, well.
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The thing is that they want others to admit that it MUST be god. If you use that arguement it is rather like dealing out a decks of cards mixed together and declairing that the exact order is so remarkably improbable(8.065E67) that it can not possibly be random that it must be designed, and then use god as the inteligence to design it.

Sure you can believe nothing is random, but that is also not a belief that makes any predictions.
 
I've watched the first three parts. Since I've read all of the trial transcripts and also the book, there hasn't been anything there so far that I didn't already know. But it's nice to get it visually - I now have faces to put to the names.
 
arthwollipot said:
I've watched the first three parts. Since I've read all of the trial transcripts and also the book, there hasn't been anything there so far that I didn't already know. But it's nice to get it visually - I now have faces to put to the names.
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Heh. You might try Youtubeing Ken Miller, he's a very effervescent debator, even if he is a woo Jesus consumer. Euginie Scott is wonderful. Judge Jones rocks and from everything I've seen, Phillip Johnson is as sour and bitter as he seems from the interviews.
 
Roboramma said:
I don't think that's true. It's the only one that I can see as an alternative to supernatural explanations, but not all supernatural explanations require a god.
For instance, there was a guy on here before that suggested that living things had within them a vital essence that "wants" to evolve, and which causes the right mutations to occur at the right times, with foresight.
That's supernatural, but without god.
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Can you have a "vital essence" before there is life? Can vital esscence create life? And is the "vital essence" intelligent? I mean it "wants" to evolve and it has foresight to cause the "right mutations". How does it do this if it is not intelligent?

I've known some New Agey people who like the ID idea, but not with an idea of god.
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Vital essence smacks of "soul" to me. Where does this vital essnce come from? Is it generated from life? What caused life to come it to being in the first place?

Superficially yes, but they can claim that abiogenesis is impossible in the conditions that existed on earth at the time of life's origin here, but that other conditions that may have existed elsewhere would have allowed for it.
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But aren't ID'rs arguing that abiogenisis is not possible without an intelligence or a designer? If it is impossible for us then would it not be impossible for the aliens?

Why? I mean, irreducible complexity is bunk, but I don't see why the concept makes less sense under extraterrestrial designers than it does under a divine one. The extraterrestrials simply have not be irreducibly complex, while we are. There argument isn't that life must be irreducibly complex, simply that life as we observe it is.
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The whole idea of irreducible complexity shows that life or biological organs cannot arise by chance. a complex biological system has to be designed and guided. Why would that idea not apply to the aliens as well. The aliens have to have complex biological systems "see" or sense or to think in order to manipulate things to design us, right? Tell me, If irreducible complexity exists, why would it not apply to the aliens?

Of course, the whole idea of irreducible complexity is so messed up as to be meaningless, I just don't follow your logic here.
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Agreed on the first part. I hope I cleared up a few things.
I just don't see how you could claim aliens designed us and not have that apply to the aliens as well.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
 
me said:
I am irked. I get PBS through the Buffalo affiliate, and these guys are not going to show this episode! (At least not this week.)
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To follow up on this comment, the Buffalo affiliate is running the intelligent design episode of Nova this week (several times, in fact). They're actually using it as part of a fundraising drive.
 
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Brown said:
To follow up on this comment, the Buffalo affiliate is running the intelligent design episode of Nova this week (several times, in fact). They're actually using it as part of a fundraising drive.
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That couldn't be due to the fact that Nova and Frontline are the creme de la creme of PBS programming could it? It must be do to it's Marxist agenda! Politburo Broadcasting Syndicate!!!!
 
mijopaalmc said:
Oh really?

Then why is adaptation referred to as increasing the probability of survival and reproduction?
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arthwollipot said:
I don't think this thread is the most appropriate forum for such a discussion. I know because Izzy the Blue Thing told me.
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Agreed. The proper reply mij should have given was a link to the existing thread on evolution and randomness.
 
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Paul

:) :) :)
 
T'ai Chi said:
"Discovery Institute has published its own guide, The Theory of Intelligent Design: A briefing packet for educators to help them understand the debate between Darwinian evolution and intelligent design"
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What debate? The only people calling it a debate are the ID whiners who demonstrate their utter lack of scientific credibility by refusing to acknowledge the truth.

Here's an analogous "debate":

Which is the better baseball team, the Boston Red Sox or the Boston Celtics?

Celtics: We're a better baseball team.

Red Sox: Yeah? Okay, let's play a game to find--

Celtics: No, no, no. We said we're better. That's all we need to know. Yay, we win! In yo' face, suckas!!!

It's embarrassing, really.
 
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