Not a God, a creator.

[wollery]

Its orderly workings make it look conscious. It knows what to do.

Is a watch conscious?

Now it need not be conscious of what it is doing, but that suggests it was engineered.

No, it doesn't. That's pure wishful thinking, and the road to ID creationism, and from there it's turtles all the way down.

And then there is that feeling that...

Oh yeah, feelings. Such precise scientific tools.

What sought of reaction has your negative attention drawn from me?

Bolding mine. This is precisely the type of thing that leads many of us to suspect that you don't have the ability to earn money off this idea. This simple grammatical error has been pointed out to you on several occasions, and you have responded to these, which means that you are aware of it. However, you have failed to learn, or to correct it.

It is symptomatic of a much wider failing. You have been told about flaws in your idea which you have either ignored, dismissed, or failed to address, and worse, on many occasions you have simply altered you argument in order to keep the same outcome.

You have an obsession, one which you will not give up, no matter how many flaws are revealed, you simply paper over the cracks. To the completely untrained eye it might just possibly look like a solid house. Unfortunately, what you can't do is cover up the fact that a surveyor would find that the foundations a built on sand, it has rising damp, the wood frame is shot through with dry rot, the plaster's ready to fall off the walls, the plumbing is leaking, the electrics are shorting, and the roof tiles will blow off in just a minor gust of wind. In short, there's nothing right with it.

 

[Tricky]

Its orderly workings make it look conscious.

No it doesn't, not to anybody who has a basic understanding of consciousness.

It knows what to do. Now it need not be conscious of what it is doing, but that suggests it was engineered. And then there is that feeling that...

Yes, I am aware of how much you want this to be true, but that doesn't really change reality.

Perhaps, but that is "evidence so far."

And what is your plan for gathering more evidence? You don't even understand the basics of physics or math.

Who said anything about "somewhere else"? Though, with the talk of other universes, I don't see how that can be done without speculating. Or do you just not like it when I do it?

Speculating doesn't "do" anything unless you go out and get some evidence for your speculations. You have shown yourself to be supremely incapable of that.

Okay, does that mean 3 times, 40, or a billion in this infinite universe?

As I say, I think life is likely in other parts of the universe, but that doesn't mean it is like ours nor does it mean that we will ever discover evidence for it. That dang speed of light thing. If you could only change that constant...

Oh, and by the way, the universe isn't infinite. Ask any astronomer.

I'll take the risk.

LOL. What risk are you going to take? Are you going to risk your reputation? You would be better served if you lost on that risk.

I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

You are going to try to wish it into being. Good luck with that.

Half empty, half full, I see half full.

There is nothing in your glass at this time. Get some education and you might put something into it.

I'm going with what the people I quoted think.

Really? Have any of them endorsed your ideas? Since you have no understanding of math or physics, I don't see how you could possibly understand what they think. Wishing won't make it so.

So speed does it for you? That was weak. You talk like someone wishing the genie do it... now! Or I won't believe.

No, I'm saying it took a long time. That's fine with me. you are the one wanting a magic conscious universe. I'm showing you why the evidence is against it.

Everything happens because of the influence of the natural laws. Life plays through them faster. Perhaps life is the answer to that "slow thing" you just spoke of.

I'm assuming you think that sentence made sense. If so, you are quite mistaken.

I think I do, but even if I didn't, I'll create one. You do know that can be done? Where have you been?

Okay. Just for practice, find one person who supports your ideas and let's see what he or she has to say. You shouldn't keep living in this fantasy future of yours. Start doing something useful.

There you go with limited thinking again. My target is the ground between them. Any real answer has to be between them. I think they are two sides of the same coin. I am going to see if I can take that coin to the bank.

Which ones are those in between? Can you give us some examples? Have you done marketing studies? Yes, my thinking is limited. It is limited to reality.

I don't need a scam, the diagram says what it does, and I, what I do. Even if I am not clever enough, I'm willing to work on it. I got plenty of persistence.

The diagram does nothing. You do nothing. What are you going to work on? More fantasy? Do you have any plans for actually acquiring any knowledge? The only persistence you have is persistent and willful ignorance.

I wasn't rehashing, I was stating that most people believe that life is the opposite of death.

And it has been explained to you many times that these are not mathematical quantities, yet you persist in putting them on a graph. So tell me, is a rock dead? Is it dead in the same way as a squirrel that has been run over by a car?

Boy. Now I know why you don't think I am clever enough, you know you are not. You figure if you can't find a way, I surely can't.

I'm going on the basis of the evidence. You have no market, no backing, nothing you can sell. But don't worry about me. I've been steadily employed for more than 35 years, even during the time I was in school. I think I found a pretty good way.

The process I am talking about has to do with magnetism. If the neighborhood school owned a supermarket, their families would have to shop there. That would focus the money into a sustainable loop.

What money? None of the supermarket's money is yours. How are you going to get them to give you some? Are you going to sell magnets?

I have only been to places like this one. I have been here since Aug 06, I am here because I found a rock to beat my head against, not for the hugs and kisses-though they would have been nice. What sought of reaction has your negative attention drawn from me?

Well then I'd advise you go find some more fertile ground for your crop, because you are starving to death here. And the reaction I have drawn from you has been heated defense of your ignorance. Not a particularly hopeful sign.

They will be the people who think between science and religion, those who want to support their children, those left out of the job market, those who believe light created life, those who think that even if what he is saying is total bull, as long as he does what he says, I'll buy two.

Let me get this straight. You are counting on financial backing from those left out of the job market? You really know how to pick your market segment, don't you?

And what, pray tell, is it that you say you can do? I haven't seen a single thing that has any value whatsoever. What are they going to buy from you? Fantasies?

And where are these hoards of people who believe "light created life"?

There you go with that limited thinking again, "in the school" can be arrived directly through students. It will give them a chance to "help themselves" or "thumb their noses".

They can help themselves at school by learning in their classes. Pity you didn't. Oh, and are you hoping to get money from these students that you were going to give money to? I see your knowledge of business is comparable to your knowledge of science.

They are literally the "wooden soldiers". Are they army enough for you?

Show me one recruit in your "army". By the way. Wooden soldiers are toys. They are not real soldiers. Indeed, your "army" consists entirely of things that are not real. This isn't a Disney movie where toy soldiers come to life, LCL. This is reality.

From the internet sale of the graph and the number code. All it has to do is produce one school owned store, each school will be required to set aside a fund to do the same thing for the next nearest high school.

LOL. Your graph is sitting out there on the internet right now. Nobody has to pay to see it. Have you had a lot of enquiries about LCL graph 2.0? Have any stores shown an interest in it? And how in the dickens do you expect to convinced schools to "require" that they spend money on your fantasies? I admit that some school boards are not the brightest in the world, but I don't know of many that are stupid enough to do that.

A non-profit program will direct the effort-I will direct it.

LOL. With your skills, who would hire you? I only hope you will somehow be able to hold a job -- any job -- so that you don't become a lifelong welfare bum.

You will, negative attention is still attention, you will help me spread it.

I'll be glad to spread all the negative attention you like. That negative attention stuff works so well, like when food companies have to make a recall due to poisoned products. They should just poison everything on purpose so they can get rich off of all the negative attention.

Seriously, LCL. Get some training in something. You don't want to be a sponge all your life, and that looks like the road you are headed down.

 

[wollery]

Oh, and by the way, the universe isn't infinite. Ask any astronomer.

Yes, you're right.

 

[lightcreatedlife@hom]

Yes, I am aware of how much you want this to be true, but that doesn't really change reality.

Its just a feeling, and feelings help define our reality.

And what is your plan for gathering more evidence? You don't even understand the basics of physics or math.

Even if that were true, what does math have to do with what is being said here? This looks like a throwback to the early days of the other thread, where you and others harped about math, where you yourself said there was none. Weak.

Speculating doesn't "do" anything unless you go out and get some evidence for your speculations. You have shown yourself to be supremely incapable of that.

Isn't speculation a prelude to most searches?

As I say, I think life is likely in other parts of the universe, but that doesn't mean it is like ours nor does it mean that we will ever discover evidence for it.

Who said anything about it being like ours? Can't you think beyond humans? Whatever form it takes, it is life. Like you, I think life is likely there-without discovering evidence of it-except if we considered us.
And by thinking life is out there, aren't you speculating?

That dang speed of light thing. If you could only change that constant...

Or somehow get around it. I like the frozen human thing, or the robot thing. They may "somewhat" make up for speed, with time.

Oh, and by the way, the universe isn't infinite. Ask any astronomer.

Oh, I thought with the number being so big and all... but I am sure you are right.

LOL. What risk are you going to take? Are you going to risk your reputation? You would be better served if you lost on that risk.

Considering how you feel about me, what reputation? Thanks for caring... but no, I won't take your advice.

You are going to try to wish it into being. Good luck with that.

Dianetics done it, so did John Smith.

There is nothing in your glass at this time. Get some education and you might put something into it.

Then I will sell an empty glass, that is also done... but you knew that.

Really? Have any of them endorsed your ideas? Since you have no understanding of math or physics,

Boy, you seem lacking in both the leadership and courage departments. At first, most ideas are only held by one person. These people have the courage and determination to see them through. They most always have to do "their thing" inspite of (and even because of) people like you. I have a hamster driven engine, and you are the hamster. "Run hamster run."

I don't see how you could possibly understand what they think. Wishing won't make it so.

I noticed that in that other thread, the people I quoted were not refuted. You (and others) seemed to have wished away the fact that you saw them.

No, I'm saying it took a long time. That's fine with me. you are the one wanting a magic conscious universe. I'm showing you why the evidence is against it.

You think because it is not fast, it can't be a conscious effort, or started by something conscious, how is that evidence?

Okay. Just for practice, find one person who supports your ideas and let's see what he or she has to say.

You want me to bring someone here that agress with me? How would that help me? You will still not change your mind, and I would not do anything different.

You shouldn't keep living in this fantasy future of yours. Start doing something useful.

This is useful to me-why else would I be doing it? Again, thanks for the advice, but no thanks. I feel bad about all the time that you spend trying to help me, perhaps you can find something in your own life that needs repair, or is this your way of avoiding your own issues?

Which ones are those in between? Can you give us some examples? Have you done marketing studies? Yes, my thinking is limited. It is limited to reality.

Your reality.

The diagram does nothing. You do nothing. What are you going to work on? More fantasy? Do you have any plans for actually acquiring any knowledge? The only persistence you have is persistent and willful ignorance.

You see, not only have you not refuted the references, you don't see me searching for them as acquiring knowledge-not any-and you talk of willful ignorance. You have a pretty good fantasy going for yourself there.
Even if the diagram did nothing, why does it follow that I do nothing? You seem to want to make sure my house is glued together, perhaps you really should put some work in on your own. Considering that you are a scientist, makes it a pity that you are also an idiot. But then they do go mad too.

And it has been explained to you many times that these are not mathematical quantities, yet you persist in putting them on a graph.

You used the word diagram one paragraph above, now you say graph, even though you said in the other thread that it was not a graph. You see that Wollery? Where is the word cop to give him a ticket? You know it only takes one word to go half mad and stomp around about deeper meanings. I'll let him off with a warning.

So tell me, is a rock dead? Is it dead in the same way as a squirrel that has been run over by a car?

Hmmm. You reaching again? Something has to be alive in order to die. I'll make the statement again, most people believe that life is the opposite of death-don't they?

I'm going on the basis of the evidence. You have no market, no backing, nothing you can sell.

Didn't you read my last post, or are you being willfully ignorant?

But don't worry about me.

I'm not. It is you who are worried about me, personally, beyond a debate about ideas. I understand that you can't tell the difference. Perhaps that is one of the things you should work on in your own life.

I've been steadily employed for more than 35 years, even during the time I was in school. I think I found a pretty good way.

You feel better now that you have given me personal information I did not ask for? Good for you, pat yourself on the back. Oh wait, you just did.

What money? None of the supermarket's money is yours. How are you going to get them to give you some? Are you going to sell magnets?

You have a point. I was being brief, but the gift will be dependant on the money going towards education related things, computerizing the 12 grade, homework resources, etc.

Well then I'd advise you go find some more fertile ground for your crop, because you are starving to death here. And the reaction I have drawn from you has been heated defense of your ignorance. Not a particularly hopeful sign.

Starving to death? My plate is full of information, I do eat rather slowly, but I'll get it all down. Oh, you are talking about nobody agreeing with me. If they did, the plate would be empty. Believe it or not, I can win by losing.

Let me get this straight. You are counting on financial backing from those left out of the job market? You really know how to pick your market segment, don't you?

Its called "focused spending". Spending at a school store that used a fund to give other schools a one, would increase the local opportunity for employment. Duh. Your reaction is what I was talking about when I talked about how generosity can be used. You see how you can't get around giving as a way to get? You are so use to thinking in terms of "keeping" you can't imagine it. Let go of the greed, think about the need.

And what, pray tell, is it that you say you can do? I haven't seen a single thing that has any value whatsoever. What are they going to buy from you? Fantasies?

The diagram is one of 200 pages, the number code is 50. And yeah, I am going to find a way to make a fantasy work.

And where are these hoards of people who believe "light created life"?

Who said anything about hoards of people who believed that?

They can help themselves at school by learning in their classes. Pity you didn't.

A scientist you say? You sound like an idiot.

Oh, and are you hoping to get money from these students that you were going to give money to? I see your knowledge of business is comparable to your knowledge of science.

The parents have the money, money they have to spend for food anyway, why wouldn't they shop in a place that supported their child? They may not, but it is reasonable for me to assume.

Show me one recruit in your "army". By the way. Wooden soldiers are toys. They are not real soldiers. Indeed, your "army" consists entirely of things that are not real. This isn't a Disney movie where toy soldiers come to life, LCL. This is reality.

I say wooden because their potential is vastly under used, use that potential, and they will seem to come to life.

LOL. Your graph is sitting out there on the internet right now. Nobody has to pay to see it. Have you had a lot of enquiries about LCL graph 2.0? Have any stores shown an interest in it?

Willful ignorance again? See the last post. I have not tried to sell the thing, I am learning how to defend it.

LOL. With your skills, who would hire you? I only hope you will somehow be able to hold a job -- any job -- so that you don't become a lifelong welfare bum.

A scientist, of the idiot variety. What on earth could you possibly know about me personally? And what does that has to do with what I am talking about?

Seriously, LCL. Get some training in something. You don't want to be a sponge all your life, and that looks like the road you are headed down.

Again, trying to help me, is making you look deranged. Or are you trying to get me to beat my chest like you did earlier? Whose is bigger? Mine may not be monstrous, but do okay. You may have the knowledge, but you have shown that you can be an idiot anyway.

 

[Tricky]

I can see, LCL, that if I respond point by point, this is just going to degenerate further.

Even though I think your chances are minutely small of ever making a living off of your... um... ideas, I wish you luck. If you ever come up with any evidence, either for your ideas or that you have supporters for your ideas, bring it by. I will leave you to your fantasies for now.

 

[arthwollipot]

I can see, LCL, that if I respond point by point, this is just going to degenerate further.

And make ever-longer quoted posts.

 

[wollery]

You used the word diagram one paragraph above, now you say graph, even though you said in the other thread that it was not a graph. You see that Wollery? Where is the word cop to give him a ticket? You know it only takes one word to go half mad and stomp around about deeper meanings. I'll let him off with a warning.

And this here is precisely why you'll never get anywhere with your ideas, and why no real scientist will ever take you seriously.

You don't understand the difference between you describing your infantile doodle as a graph, and Tricky using the word in a response to you.

 

[lightcreatedlife@hom]

Well, that quote proves quite conclusively that he doesn't have the first clue about physics, in particular nucleosynthesis, and that he couldn't be bothered to actually research it or even ask someone. Only hydrogen existed in large quantities in the early Universe, with traces of helium, deuterium, tritium, and lithium. It took stars to produce heavier elements (up to oxygen) and a second generation of stars to produce the rest, many only produced in supernovae.

He does seem to be saying that the elements formed without the help of the stars. I thought he was just being brief. I knew the stars produced the elements, and Belz told me a long time ago that the first stars were unable to produce planets because of the lack of heavier elements. Still, your references to those first elements, shows that things started out simple, and moved in the direction of the more complex. I see life, coming from the process, forming a whole nother level of complexity. Intelligence, and conscious, working to create yet another level of complexity through humans.

Furthermore the statement about some elements forming and then later becoming unstable and disappearing is pure speculation with absolutely no basis in any physics that I know of.

I thought he was refering to things happenning in nature, like the elements that humans can make, that are so unstable that they only exist for a short time.

 

[lightcreatedlife@hom]

And this here is precisely why you'll never get anywhere with your ideas, and why no real scientist will ever take you seriously.

I can still get somewhere without any scientist taking me seriously.

You don't understand the difference between you describing your infantile doodle as a graph, and Tricky using the word in a response to you.

I recognize that he made a mistake, a small one, no big deal, no need for any deeper meaning like you attached to the use of the words "sort" and "sought". Push the couch back up against the wall, there is no deeper meaning, just a simple mistake. You might be one of those people over sensitive to grammar-but who am I to analyze you?