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Split Thread 'Nose-out' footage

The slug of fuel model is supposed to prove that the plane could have broken through the wall, which in turn is supposed to prove that the nose out may not have been a cgi. NIST say it's reasonable to suppose that all the fuel was in the inboard tank, whereas Mackey assumes there was fuel in both tanks. We have a discrepancy and it has nothing to do with eyewitnesses.


But there is no need to prove that the nose out may not have been a cgi. The no-planers assume that there is, but there is no evidence that anyone will, or should, ever take their claims seriously because all they can offer to support them is a perpetually goalpost-moving demand to convince them otherwise. We have a discrepancy and it has nothing to do with reality.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Oh my, it hasn't gotten any smarter since I've set him to ignore. I wonder what else in the world one has to "prove isn't a CGI" to convince these loons of anything. This type of claim, I think, would fascinate a trier of fact.

- Pittsburgh receiver goes out of bounds before he scores? "Hey ref - Prove the white line isn't a CGI!"
- Busted for murder? "VicSim was a CGI!"
- Caught on a red-light camera? "CGI eleventy1!1!!!!"

It's really, really sad. Some people need mental help.

PS - It seems really odd when brand-new posters are so familiar with some of the posters here. Just a thought.
 
The slug of fuel model is supposed to prove that the plane could have broken through the wall, which in turn is supposed to prove that the nose out may not have been a cgi. NIST say it's reasonable to suppose that all the fuel was in the inboard tank, whereas Mackey assumes there was fuel in both tanks. We have a discrepancy and it has nothing to do with eyewitnesses.
This thread is about the idiotic nose-out scam by some idiots in the truth movement. Why are you off topic? It is a fact a plane going faster than 200 mph will enter the WTC, it is basic physics. Robertson designed the WTC to stop an aircraft impact under 200 mph. It was a strong design, so they could maximize floor space.

The nose out is not cgi, it is the result of low speed, low resolution video. In reality the nose out is debris exiting the WTC. To say otherwise if pure insanity.

There could have been up to 12,000 pounds of fuel past rib 18. The main tank has about 4500 gallons inboard of Rib 18, and 2000 gallons outboard so only a 1/3 of the tank is outboard of 18, not half. How much does the wing weigh? They made assumptions about the fuel, but it does not matter because the WTC is made in sections, and it was the sections that failed to large sections, 3 stories high were exposed to the impact kind of averaging out the impact energy over the areas involved.

wtc2impact-1.jpg

Oh look-ee, major sections (how big are those sections) were knock through due to the impact energy of 2093 pounds of TNT, 11 times the design impact of 187 pounds of TNT. The wing tip did not knock out the sections, not enough energy, but the wingtip traveling at 590 mph did bend the Aluminum siding; gee whiz, I could do that with a hammer using chocolate chip cookies as the energy source.


The nose out is garbage and you agree no one can be dumb enough to support the nose out lie. The nose out garbage is supported by Ace Baker who is insane on this topic. You know a plane crashed into the WTC and did the damage seen on 911. If you don't you are having a break with reality; get some sleep.

We conclude that momentum from the fuel alone is enough to destroy the steel column
Show there is not enough momentum to do it? The entire plane had the kinetic energy of 2093 pounds of TNT, much more than most CD scenarios. You never presented the calculations to prove 66,000 pounds of fuel at 590 mph can't do it. Show your work. Do some math. Try using physics instead of talking about fuel in the wing and trying to tie to the nose-out insanity of Ace Baker and other people who are unable to understand 911 after 8 years.

The fuel kinetic energy is only 497.8 pounds of TNT, like a 500 pound bomb in the form of wings. Would 500 pounds of TNT energy be enough to crash into the WTC? YES, the WTC was designed to stop a 187 pound of TNT kinetic energy event, looks like you failed to do the math, the physics, the engineering other people spent 4 years in undergrad work and 1.5 years in graduate work doing. You should have looked up JFK, he gave inspirational speeches emphasizing Independence and doing the hard things to get things done.

Energy911.jpg

The fuel alone at 500 pounds of TNT is devastating to the WTC! V squared...
 
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Can Bard explain why there would be a nose of a plane coming out the other side after hitting the outter columns & then hitting the inner columns without damaging itself around those structures?

I hardly doubt he will explain!
 
Different parts of the plane will behave differently according to their material properties. The engines and landing gear might even break the steel columns.

Uh-huh. So what's the problem?
 
Can Bard explain why there would be a nose of a plane coming out the other side after hitting the outter columns & then hitting the inner columns without damaging itself around those structures?

I hardly doubt he will explain!

He thinks that the airplanes were CGI models inserted into the videos in real time on 9/11/01. Based upon this I believe he is insane and I don't talk to insane people. It's a skill I learned by walking around some parts of San Francisco.
 
He thinks that the airplanes were CGI models inserted into the videos in real time on 9/11/01. Based upon this I believe he is insane and I don't talk to insane people. It's a skill I learned by walking around some parts of San Francisco.

LOL!

I never knew that Hollywood came to NYC, the Pentagon & Shanksville, PA.

I wonder where those big green screens were?

Bard's got some splainin' to do!
 
No planers now think that the burden of proof is on sane people to prove the plane wasn't CGI?!?!?!? Wow.
 
Here's where we're up to:

1. You posted links to Mackey's Hardfire presentation where he claims to prove that fuel alone could have broken the perimeter columns.

2. I offered some criticism of Mackey's slug of fuel model, using data from NIST as my source.

3. You posted a link to a youtube video claiming that columns weren't broken.

It's time for you to make your mind up whether you believe NIST, Mackey or youtube.

I was just trying to let you have it at the level of your comprehension. I mean you use Ace bakers BS with the bad youtube videos, so I figured I present it to you in your own medium.

NIST is on the ball in their descriptions of what occurred in the collapses, Ryan Mackey is using a MODEL with some basic estimations, and the youtube video dumbs it down enough that even a simple truther can understand.

so they work well together. Massive FAIL. You may want to go back to school and try some basic remedial courses. REally.
 
The slug of fuel model is supposed to prove that the plane could have broken through the wall, which in turn is supposed to prove that the nose out may not have been a cgi. NIST say it's reasonable to suppose that all the fuel was in the inboard tank, whereas Mackey assumes there was fuel in both tanks. We have a discrepancy and it has nothing to do with eyewitnesses.

Yet again your lack of education, critical thinking skills and experience show you up. YOu even PROVE IT in this statement.

I love truthers.
Ryan Mackey was producing a SIMPLIFIED MODEL (you know episode 3 of the hardfire debate). A simpliefied model just looking at what the fuel alone could do, and didn't look at a 100 Ton aircraft moving at 500 mph.

Your argument is that this model isn't accurate enough is bunk. It is absolutely hillarious. You say it is wrong because it isn't as accurate as NIST.... DUR!!!! It was designed to be presented in under an hour in depth. How long did NIST take to complete their report?

a SIMPLIFIED MODEL that uses ESTIMATES to demonstrate that JUST THE FUEL ALONE would be enough to cut columns/break bolts/etc... and you just handwave away your ignorance.

so we can add to your remedial reading list
simplified model
and
estimation

ROFLMAO. Go back to school ace, it isn't too late for you.
 
But there is no need to prove that the nose out may not have been a cgi.

Then why did R Mackey go to the trouble of constructing his slug of fuel model, presenting it on Hardfire and challenging the truth movement to debunk it?


No planers now think that the burden of proof is on sane people to prove the plane wasn't CGI?!?!?!? Wow.

R Mackey says the burden of proof is on the truth movement to prove him wrong then when they do that, Mackey's friends say it doesn't matter one way or the other.


PS - It seems really odd when brand-new posters are so familiar with some of the posters here. Just a thought.

Do you think Hardfire is only discussed on JREF?


LOL!

I never knew that Hollywood came to NYC, the Pentagon & Shanksville, PA.

I wonder where those big green screens were?

Bard's got some splainin' to do!

Now you mention it, that might explain why Warner Bros. executives were warned to stay away from New York on 9/11.

http://www.infowars.com/ex-cia-man-warned-top-executives-to-leave-new-york-on-911/
 
NIST is on the ball in their descriptions of what occurred in the collapses, Ryan Mackey is using a MODEL with some basic estimations, and the youtube video dumbs it down enough that even a simple truther can understand.

so they work well together.

Look at the diagrams on page 238 of NCSTAR 1-2B and tell me whether any individual columns were broken according to NIST. Yes or no?


I love truthers.
Ryan Mackey was producing a SIMPLIFIED MODEL (you know episode 3 of the hardfire debate). A simpliefied model just looking at what the fuel alone could do, and didn't look at a 100 Ton aircraft moving at 500 mph.

Your argument is that this model isn't accurate enough is bunk. It is absolutely hillarious. You say it is wrong because it isn't as accurate as NIST.... DUR!!!! It was designed to be presented in under an hour in depth. How long did NIST take to complete their report?

a SIMPLIFIED MODEL that uses ESTIMATES to demonstrate that JUST THE FUEL ALONE would be enough to cut columns/break bolts/etc... and you just handwave away your ignorance.

For the model to mean anything, it has to account for all the broken columns. I've shown that some broken columns would have been hit by sections of the wing where the fuel tank was empty, according to NIST. A new model is needed showing that these columns could have been broken by the momentum from the wing structure and empty fuel tank alone.
 
He thinks that the airplanes were CGI models inserted into the videos in real time on 9/11/01. Based upon this I believe he is insane and I don't talk to insane people. It's a skill I learned by walking around some parts of San Francisco.

The truther fantasy world would be interesting to pyschologists I would imagine.Have any case studies been done?
 
For the model to mean anything, it has to account for all the broken columns. I've shown that some broken columns would have been hit by sections of the wing where the fuel tank was empty, according to NIST. A new model is needed showing that these columns could have been broken by the momentum from the wing structure and empty fuel tank alone.

Your lack of understanding (I'm sorry that you don't have the education to even understand it) is rather telling.

Mackey created a SIMPLIFIED MODEL (look it up in dictionary.com) which shows that JUST THE FUEL ALONE would be capable of breaking columns and column connections. It was an estimate, a simple back of the table cloth estimate.

And guess what? It shows that no matter what, it still would have gone through the columns. And that isn't even looking at the 100 TON aircraft behind the fuel.

No new model is needed, anymore than Bazant needs a new model.

I'm sorry that you don't understand how modeling works (go back and watch hardfire episode 3 of the physics of 9/11 and try to pay attention).

massive swing... massive fail. (like normal)
 
This thread is about the idiotic nose-out scam by some idiots in the truth movement. Why are you off topic?

I'll start a new thread if you want, or resurrect an old one.


It is a fact a plane going faster than 200 mph will enter the WTC, it is basic physics.

If that's true, why do debunkers tie themselves in knots trying to prove it?


There could have been up to 12,000 pounds of fuel past rib 18. The main tank has about 4500 gallons inboard of Rib 18, and 2000 gallons outboard so only a 1/3 of the tank is outboard of 18, not half. How much does the wing weigh? They made assumptions about the fuel, but it does not matter because the WTC is made in sections, and it was the sections that failed to large sections, 3 stories high were exposed to the impact kind of averaging out the impact energy over the areas involved.

Are you saying that no individual columns were broken?


[qimg]http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/wtc2impact-1.jpg[/qimg]
Oh look-ee, major sections (how big are those sections) were knock through due to the impact energy of 2093 pounds of TNT, 11 times the design impact of 187 pounds of TNT. The wing tip did not knock out the sections, not enough energy, but the wingtip traveling at 590 mph did bend the Aluminum siding; gee whiz, I could do that with a hammer using chocolate chip cookies as the energy source.

It looks to me like columns were broken in the area where there was no fuel in the outboard tank, according to NIST.


Show there is not enough momentum to do it? The entire plane had the kinetic energy of 2093 pounds of TNT, much more than most CD scenarios. You never presented the calculations to prove 66,000 pounds of fuel at 590 mph can't do it. Show your work. Do some math. Try using physics instead of talking about fuel in the wing and trying to tie to the nose-out insanity of Ace Baker and other people who are unable to understand 911 after 8 years.

The fuel kinetic energy is only 497.8 pounds of TNT, like a 500 pound bomb in the form of wings. Would 500 pounds of TNT energy be enough to crash into the WTC? YES, the WTC was designed to stop a 187 pound of TNT kinetic energy event, looks like you failed to do the math, the physics, the engineering other people spent 4 years in undergrad work and 1.5 years in graduate work doing. You should have looked up JFK, he gave inspirational speeches emphasizing Independence and doing the hard things to get things done.

The fuel alone at 500 pounds of TNT is devastating to the WTC! V squared...

The fuel didn't explode till it got inside the building. The kinetic energy from the momentum of the fuel could only affect the columns that were hit by a section of the wing that was carrying fuel.
 
Your lack of understanding (I'm sorry that you don't have the education to even understand it) is rather telling.

Mackey created a SIMPLIFIED MODEL (look it up in dictionary.com) which shows that JUST THE FUEL ALONE would be capable of breaking columns and column connections. It was an estimate, a simple back of the table cloth estimate.

And guess what? It shows that no matter what, it still would have gone through the columns. And that isn't even looking at the 100 TON aircraft behind the fuel.

No new model is needed, anymore than Bazant needs a new model.

I'm sorry that you don't understand how modeling works (go back and watch hardfire episode 3 of the physics of 9/11 and try to pay attention).

massive swing... massive fail. (like normal)

How could momentum from the fuel break columns that wouldn't have been hit by any fuel?
 
How could momentum from the fuel break columns that wouldn't have been hit by any fuel?

How did the car manage to cause the plate steel to fold in half in the mythbuster video?

aluminum isn't as strong as steel.

You keep missing a very simple point... you know there was a 100 ton vehicle moving 500 mph behind it.

the model was enough to show you that FUEL ALONE would be enough to sever columns...

what about that 100 TON jet moving 500 mph? Huh?

I mean we know that straw is thin and breaks easily... but a hurricane with throw it through a solid wooden door....

Try again.

ETA: I forgot the DUR that goes with it...
 
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How could momentum from the fuel break columns that wouldn't have been hit by any fuel?

Pressure per square foot times the number of square feet exceeds the carrying capacity in a direction the the column was not designed for.
 

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