Norway's Red Dawn

[Freakshow]

Which is why small government, privatization and low taxes are important (European) liberal issues

As I've said before, what you Americans call liberalism is NOT the same as what we Europeans call liberalism.

Hey, sounds good to me!

Is that typical throughout most european countries, or are there still big differences in the definitions from one country to the next?

 

[PogoPedant]

That's not the "goodness" of humans. I interpreted the statement to mean a belief in a well-intentioned, well-meaning, generous, and all around "nice" nature of humans. I could have misinterpreted it.

I definately believe that government should leave people alone as much as possible, and that people are mostly capable, if either allowed to or forced to, of taking care of themselves. But this also means low social-spending, which requires low taxes.

This is, sort of, the core of liberalism. It just got mistranslated when exported over the pond. I wish I still had my pol. sci. books, I could drop names of philosophers and economists...

But as for human nature being "nice"...no, not by a long shot.

Well.... good point.

 

[Ryokan]

No, that's pretty much what liberal means all over Europe.

It's also quite common all over Europe that Liberal and Conservative parties find common ground, as their similarities are greater than the differences with the Socialists.

For example, as have been mentioned here earlier, our current administration here in Norway (until the election results take effect sometime next month) is a coalition of the Liberal Party, the Conservative Party and the Christian Democratic Party.

The difference between the Liberal Party and Conservative Party here is very small. When I was younger I was active in the Conservative Youth, but called myself Liberal. At this year's election, I voted the Liberal Party. Did you see my 'Norwegian Politics for Dummies' thread?

When it comes to the two American parties, both would be considered to be on the right side of the political sprectrum (conservative) in Norway.

 

[Kerberos]

I am aware of that.

I say this because Denmark has re-elected the Liberal Party and its partners, I think for the first time ever.

Also, I believe the Scandanavian countries are with the UK in backing greater liberalization of labor practices, etc. in the EU.

Of course being liberal is all relative...

It is correct that it's the first time in moderne history a Prime Minister from the Liberal party (which we call "Left" BTW) is reelected, but while the governement before this one was led by the Socialdemocratic party, the one before that was led by the Conservative party, which in Denmark is considered very close to the Liberal party, and the Liberal party was a member too. Also Denmark would push for Liberalization in the EU even if led by the Social Democrats, the economic policy (or any other policy for that matter) isn't all that different. If I recall correctly most of the liberalization of the Danish economy happened under the previous Social democratic governement. So yes, Denmark is one of the more "liberal" countries in the EU, but I don't think that's got much to do with the victory of the "liberal" party.

 

[bjornart]

And on a similar note:

Norway ranks fifth on World Bank's "Ease of doing business" list
Least amount of hassle in Europe.

Ease of doing business ranking:
1 ... New Zealand
2 ... Singapore
3 ... USA
4 ... Canada
5 ... Norge
6 ... Australia
7 ... Hong Kong (Kina)
8 ... Danmark
9 ... Storbritannia
10 ... Japan
11 ... Irland
12 ... Island
13 ... Finland
14 ... Sverige
15 ... Litauen
16 ... Estland
17 ... Sveits
18 ... Belgia
19 ... Tyskland
20 ... Thailand
www.doingbusiness.org

 

[RandFan]

No, that's pretty much what liberal means all over Europe.

It would be so much easier if people the world over would adopt the American definition of terms. Then again it would be so much easier if they would adopt American politics, American culture, American way of life and American sentimentality. "America, coming to a nation near you."

All kidding aside. I remember how conservatives went nuts when reporters started referring to Soviet communist hard liners as "conservative". In America it seems we lack the ability to understand the various use of terms and labels like Conservative and liberal. Then again this could be typical of most people.

Things just aren't so black and white and while there are two parties in America there are not just two schools of thought. On the contrary there are many.

 

[delphi_ote]

In America it seems we lack the ability to understand the various use of terms and labels like Conservative and liberal.

I think the problem is that Americans don't fundamentally understand what these words mean. Our political discourse is based on ignorance and parroted attacks on straw men.

Liberalism and conservatism are political philosophies which we all espouse in one way or another (if we didn't, we wouldn't really be able to have a conversation.) Rush Limbaugh and Dick Cheney are liberals. Bill Clinton was a conservative. The American constitution incorporates liberal and conservative philosophies.

Americans think the opposite of a liberal is a conservative and vice versa. That's just not true. Progressive or radical and conservative might be considered opposite political philosophies, but they're all very broad terms with different meanings in different contexts.

If you doubt these things, do some reading on political philosophy.

 

[CapelDodger]

Things just aren't so black and white and while there are two parties in America there are not just two schools of thought. On the contrary there are many.

No doubt, but not expressed in the proliferation of parties - Christian Democrat, Social Democrat, Liberal Democrats, Christain Socialist, SDLP (Social and Democratic Labour party, representingCatholics ...), Christian Social Unionist, Liberal Autocratic, Green, Orange, Nice Like It USed To Be, Nasty But You Love It Doncha, Social Monarchist, National Front/Action/Forward/Backward etc., Latter-Day Whigs. And that doesn't even touch the whole Socialist pantheon.

I vote Social Democrat, Green or people I know and respect, depending. I used to vote Labour, but I could never vote for Blair.

But I am not a liberal.

 

[CapelDodger]

Re: Re: Re: Norway's Red Dawn

They give the UK a Christmas tree every year which makes them somewhat popular

All the unpleasantness is well in the past. Stalwart allies in WW2 - thousands upon thousands of Norwegian seamen ran the Atlantic gauntlet for years to keep resistance alive. Sea-going folk, so there's a lot in common and a lot of contact. Constitutional Monarchy. Not at all French. What's not to like?

 

[Ryokan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Norway's Red Dawn

Stalwart allies in WW2 - thousands upon thousands of Norwegian seamen ran the Atlantic gauntlet for years to keep resistance alive. Sea-going folk, so there's a lot in common and a lot of contact.

Going to war by sea since seven-ninetythree!!