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Norway debates banning male circumcision

AdMan said:
This is the first I hear that circumcision is associated with sexual dysfunction in female partners. Is there a hypothesis as to how that could happen?
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I'm with you on this. I've have never heard that nor can think of why it would affect the female partner. However there is a pretty graph that says so.
 
My guess, and treading lightly here ... when his skin is sliding around inside his own foreskin, that means it is rubbing less against her skin.
 
Castration reduces the risk of having sex, which in turn reduces the risk of HIV. Think of the children!
 
Circumcision in adults has risks. The article below mentions them. One of which is that there should be no sexual stimulation for about 6 weeks. I would find that impossible.


Adult circumcision comes with some risks. Bleeding and infection is of significant concern. In addition, adult males who undergo circumcision may also be at risk for having too much or too little foreskin removed and a change in nerve and sensation. <snip>

In addition to surgical risks, the time for recovery from circumcision surgery may take as long as six weeks, requiring abstinence during the recovery period. This includes absence from any sexual stimulation.
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http://voices.yahoo.com/adult-male-circumcision-risks-benefits-recovery-581431.html
 
rjh01 said:
Not all risks are the same. Some are more than others.
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One of the reasons for the debate now in Norway is that a little baby boy died after a circumcision in Oslo last month. Complications during the circumcision of baby boys, death being the most extreme, are far more common than most of us would like.
 
Capsid said:
Circumcision reduces the risk of HIV infection.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22581866
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Even if true, we know that circumcised men still contract HIV. Thousands of American men, most of them most likely circumcised, died of AIDS in the 80s. But even those numbers pale in comparison to the thousands of circumcised Africans who die of AIDS every year.

So, even if true, circumcision is not a good way to protect against HIV, and using it as an argument is close to grasping at straws.
 
AdMan said:
This is the first I hear that circumcision is associated with sexual dysfunction in female partners. Is there a hypothesis as to how that could happen?
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Stankeye said:
I'm with you on this. I've have never heard that nor can think of why it would affect the female partner. However there is a pretty graph that says so.
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And a peer reviewed [Int. J. Epidemiol] paper with lots of facts and statistics too.....................

Capsid said:
Circumcision reduces the risk of HIV infection.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22581866
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More dubious "science" from Brian Morris, he of the circumcision is a "biomedical imperative for the 21st century".

Interestingly Morris didn't like the Danish study, it contradicts his opinions, and started a campaign urging his supporters to complain to the journal and distorting some of its conclusions. Frisch rather comprehensively demolished him.

Further, Morris is a member of the Gilgal Society, headed by Vernon Quaintance1, a group that discusses the erotic stimulation they experience by watching other males being circumcised, swap fiction and about it, and trade in videotapes of actual circumcisions. They've published a book containing stories eroticising the circumcision of minors.

Thus I'm a little dubious about pro-circumcision claims by Morris. :rolleyes:

1 who was (April 2011) arrested for possessing child pornography and was sentenced this April.
 
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Ryokan said:
One of the reasons for the debate now in Norway is that a little baby boy died after a circumcision in Oslo last month. Complications during the circumcision of baby boys, death being the most extreme, are far more common than most of us would like.
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Far too common, as was discussed in the previous threads.

Ryokan said:
Even if true, we know that circumcised men still contract HIV. Thousands of American men, most of them most likely circumcised, died of AIDS in the 80s. But even those numbers pale in comparison to the thousands of circumcised Africans who die of AIDS every year.

So, even if true, circumcision is not a good way to protect against HIV, and using it as an argument is close to grasping at straws.
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As we discussed in the last-but-one thread on circumcision the science is dubious, the cost/benefit analysis doesn't support circumcision and the increase in high-risk sexual activity more than eliminates any benefits.
 
Ryokan said:
So, even if true, circumcision is not a good way to protect against HIV, and using it as an argument is close to grasping at straws.
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pretty much. My understanding of the research is that there is small but non-trivial reduction in transmission provided by circumcision.

However, this is completely dwarfed by the reduction in transmission provided by condom use.
 
catsmate1 said:
Morris is a member of the Gilgal Society, headed by Vernon Quaintance1, a group that discusses the erotic stimulation they experience by watching other males being circumcised, swap fiction and about it, and trade in videotapes of actual circumcisions. They've published a book containing stories eroticising the circumcision of minors.

Thus I'm a little dubious about pro-circumcision claims by Morris. :rolleyes:

1 who was (April 2011) arrested for possessing child pornography and was sentenced this April.
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I really think it's time poisoning the well was removed from the list of logical fallacies, it's far too often entirely appropriate.:D
 
cwalner said:
My understanding of the research is that there is small but non-trivial reduction in transmission provided by circumcision.
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I think there's a fallacy there. There may be a small, significant reduction in the incidence of HIV in circumcised men, if one compares circumcised and uncircumcised groups who take no other precautions. However, anyone relying on circumcision alone to protect himself from HIV is obviously bonkers.

What one needs to know is whether circumcision in addition to all the normal precautions such as condoms, fidelity and so on has a significantly protective effect. Because that's real life.

I don't honestly believe it has such an effect. Are parents really saying, I'm going to teach my son all about safe sex, but I'll have him circumcised as well because that will add to his chances of not becoming infected? I doubt such an attitude would be justified.

I think parents are doing it for reasons of dogma, religious or otherwise, and the rest is just post-hoc justification.

Rolfe.
 
catsmate1 said:
And a peer reviewed [Int. J. Epidemiol] paper with lots of facts and statistics too.....................


More dubious "science" from Brian Morris, he of the circumcision is a "biomedical imperative for the 21st century".

Interestingly Morris didn't like the Danish study, it contradicts his opinions, and started a campaign urging his supporters to complain to the journal and distorting some of its conclusions. Frisch rather comprehensively demolished him.

Further, Morris is a member of the Gilgal Society, headed by Vernon Quaintance1, a group that discusses the erotic stimulation they experience by watching other males being circumcised, swap fiction and about it, and trade in videotapes of actual circumcisions. They've published a book containing stories eroticising the circumcision of minors.

Thus I'm a little dubious about pro-circumcision claims by Morris. :rolleyes:

1 who was (April 2011) arrested for possessing child pornography and was sentenced this April.
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These are the trials; as Rolfe says there may be confounding factors.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22210632
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17558336
 
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