North Korean purges continue. Klling latest with mortar execution.

[HoverBoarder]

North Korean army minister 'executed with mortar round'

One of the latest purges by Kim Jong-un in North Korea includes an army minister blown to pieces for drinking during the official 'mourning period.'

A North Korean army minister was executed with a mortar round for reportedly drinking and carousing during the official mourning period after Kim Jong-il's death.

Kim Chol, vice minister of the army, was taken into custody earlier this year on the orders of Kim Jong-un, who assumed the leadership after the death of his father in December.

On the orders of Kim Jong-un to leave "no trace of him behind, down to his hair," according to South Korean media, Kim Chol was forced to stand on a spot that had been zeroed in for a mortar round and "obliterated."

The execution of Kim Chol is just one example of a purge of members of the North Korean military or party who threatened the fledgling regime of Kim Jong-un.

So far this year, 14 senior officials have fallen victim to the purges, according to intelligence data provided to Yoon Sang-hyun, a member of the South Korean Foreign Affairs, Trade and Unification Committee.

...

When Kim Jong-un became North Korean leader following the mourning period for his father in late December, high-ranking military officers started disappearing," a source told the Chosun Ilbo newspaper. "From information compiled over the last month, we have concluded that dozens of military officers were purged."

Now everyone look happy, or I blow you up too!

 

[HoverBoarder]

Now a mortar round execution is pretty rare, but don't think that North Korea is not inventive with their executions!

With all of the people that they kill every year, it looks like Kim Jong is having some fun with thinking up new ways to kill his people.

Report: N. Korean officials executed in staged traffic accidents

A new Amnesty International report paints a gruesome picture of summary executions, torture and ill-treatment in North Korea as Kim Jong Un succeeded his late father, Kim Jong Il, as the country's ruler last December.

The country used firing squads or staged traffic accidents to execute 30 officials involved in talks to unite North and South Korea, according to the 2012 Amnesty International report released Thursday. It also notes that the country had been questioned about another 37 reported executions between 2007 and 2010 for "financial crimes."

Credible reports estimated that up to 200,000 prisoners were held in horrific conditions in six sprawling political prison camps, including the notorious Yodok facility. Thousands were imprisoned in at least 180 other detention facilities. Most were imprisoned without trial or following grossly unfair trials and on the basis of forced confessions.​

Men, women and children, who were kept in the prison camps, were tortured and forced to work in dangerous conditions, according to the report. Many of the prisoners die or get sick while in custody due to the horrendous conditions, beatings, lack of medical care and unhealthy living conditions.

Ironically, one of my friends who was convinced that Communism was just the 'greatest,' told me that North Korea was a paradise. A "paradise" he said from his small apartment with a cabinet full of food. A situation that many N. Koreans would gladly give up their lives for if they thought it would allow their kids or family to have the same opportunity.

 

[angrysoba]

Those wacky North Koreans. What will they think of next?

 

[Puppycow]

Ironically, one of my friends who was convinced that Communism was just the 'greatest,' told me that North Korea was a paradise. A "paradise" he said from his small apartment with a cabinet full of food. A situation that many N. Koreans would gladly give up their lives for if they thought it would allow their kids or family to have the same opportunity.

How do people get these wacky ideas about N. Korea?

I take it he doesn't get his ideas from mainstream sources.

Perhaps he should listen to what Charles Robert Jenkins said about life in North Korea:

Jenkins says he almost immediately regretted his defection. He says that he and three other U.S. servicemen, Larry Abshier, Jerry Parrish and James Dresnok, were quarantined in a one-room house with no running water until 1972, where they were made to study the Juche philosophy of Kim Il-sung. They were forced to memorize large passages of Kim's in Korean, and beaten frequently.[2]

 

[Caustic Logic]

Not so much to apologize for the Kims, but some of this sounds suspiciously overly-weird. Forcing a guy to stand there as you fire a mortar at him is believable enough, if pretty odd.

But the "staged traffic accidents" - I wonder how they staged these and how the informants happened to know about the truth? To stage an "accident" suggests other than the usual driving off the road by unseen drivers who flee the scene. To stage an "accident," you need to ram into them in a deadly way (for them, not you) and then hang around the "accident" scene.

Unless they mean - gasp - staged hit-and-run accidents. Yeah, I guess that could be. So maybe it's not too weird.

 

[HoverBoarder]

Not so much to apologize for the Kims, but some of this sounds suspiciously overly-weird. Forcing a guy to stand there as you fire a mortar at him is believable enough, if pretty odd.

But the "staged traffic accidents" - I wonder how they staged these and how the informants happened to know about the truth? To stage an "accident" suggests other than the usual driving off the road by unseen drivers who flee the scene. To stage an "accident," you need to ram into them in a deadly way (for them, not you) and then hang around the "accident" scene.

Unless they mean - gasp - staged hit-and-run accidents. Yeah, I guess that could be. So maybe it's not too weird.

Blowing someone up with a mortar round is just the tip of the iceberg. The 200,000 people in the N. Korean death camps, many of whom are killed by untreated disease, starvation, and beatings are probably more of an issue.

More than just a little odd.


By the way, what is it with you and rushing to the defense of every bloody brutal dictator? Do you feel that they are being unfairly picked on and desperately need your protection?

 

[HoverBoarder]

How do people get these wacky ideas about N. Korea?

I take it he doesn't get his ideas from mainstream sources.

Perhaps he should listen to what Charles Robert Jenkins said about life in North Korea:

Definitely a good example, and thanks for the info. Although, I think he would probably take any criticism of N. Korea as manufactured Western lies. Even if it was an interview of someone's personal experiences.

There were a lot of similar people like that in OWS. Communism and even anarchism were touted as viable solutions to fixing the problems with Capitalism. Not so much because they had really thought through those ideas, since the repeated failures of Communism has killed millions of people, and Anarchism is an oxymoron that could never exist in the real world. But more because they could use Communism and Anarchism as a tool for helping to hold up Capitalism as the get evil of our lifetimes.

I have yet to meet a Communist who has genuinely thought their ideas through, and I think that is the whole point. Thinking about complexities are hard, but having blanket blame assertions of good/evil that don't require thinking is easy.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Well, I'll let you decide for yourself why I'm so eager to defend the dictators. Probably some conspiracy involved, huh?

As for the rest of the iceberg you refer to, I'm sure sure at least a lot of that is real, possibly even (roughly) all of it. But for some unspecifiable portion, there could be some geo-politically motivated exaggeration to help "clarify" the situation.

Take that as a FWIW passing thought, read as loosely as possible to increase its perceived worth (that is, try considering a 0.5% exaggeration rate and say "OK, maybe" rather than imagining I mean it's all fake and calling me koo-koo, 'kay?).

I am soooo not an expert on N. Korea, and would have little to add other than those FWIW points and the little thought exercise above.

 

[dudalb]

It is pretty apparent that Caustic Logic is going to defend any Anti Western Dictator that comes along.....

 

[angrysoba]

Not so much to apologize for the Kims, but some of this sounds suspiciously overly-weird. Forcing a guy to stand there as you fire a mortar at him is believable enough, if pretty odd.

But the "staged traffic accidents" - I wonder how they staged these and how the informants happened to know about the truth? To stage an "accident" suggests other than the usual driving off the road by unseen drivers who flee the scene. To stage an "accident," you need to ram into them in a deadly way (for them, not you) and then hang around the "accident" scene.

Unless they mean - gasp - staged hit-and-run accidents. Yeah, I guess that could be. So maybe it's not too weird.

I think they were "staged" in the sense they never happened.

North Korea has from time to time had epidemics of bad traffic accidents in which people were killed. Although this is from memory, I seem to remember that some of the abductees from Japan suddenly died in a rash of traffic accidents and suicides on the same day. The inference made by those who were given the information is that they were killed (or at least, disappeared) in a purge.

Those who watch North Korea will know that these sudden train and traffic accidents and suicides tend to occur in quick succession. I have also heard it said that the somewhat unbelievable timing is also deliberate as a thinly-veiled warning to others to obey the regime.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Not doing the most concerted job of it here, if so. Maybe that's my clever cover, huh?

 

[Puppycow]

I think they were "staged" in the sense they never happened.

North Korea has from time to time had epidemics of bad traffic accidents in which people were killed. Although this is from memory, I seem to remember that some of the abductees from Japan suddenly died in a rash of traffic accidents and suicides on the same day. The inference made by those who were given the information is that they were killed (or at least, disappeared) in a purge.

Those who watch North Korea will know that these sudden train and traffic accidents and suicides tend to occur in quick succession. I have also heard it said that the somewhat unbelievable timing is also deliberate as a thinly-veiled warning to others to obey the regime.

I was wondering about that myself. Why go to all the trouble of "staging" a traffic accident if you're North Korea? They probably just make the victim disappear and they tell his family and the official news media, which they control, that he died in a traffic accident.

 

[HoverBoarder]

Well, I'll let you decide for yourself why I'm so eager to defend the dictators. Probably some conspiracy involved, huh?

I would say it is probably foremost a desire to have a unique viewpoint not dictated by the views/findings of the main stream media.

Although many times I would argue that largely comes from shoot-from-the-hip speculation and inaccurate analysis influenced by the blanket good guy/bad guy thinking that can sometimes be found on the extreme left and extreme right.

It is an ideology that thrives on the desire to be unique, but ironically relies on the groupthink consensus of similar ideological groups. An ideology that justifies the mistakes and inaccuracies in their thinking through the struggle for the 'greater good' over the 'greater evil.' A way of thinking that limits rational analysis, which allows more CTs to be accepted without the red flags that would normally come up in people who do not subscribe to such a black and white thinking, but a way of thinking that itself is not part of a CT.

Similar reasoning for providing blanket support for dictators while ignoring their negative attributes is shown in the video that JJ posted, including at 45:30 in the video and elsewhere.

As for the rest of the iceberg you refer to, I'm sure sure at least a lot of that is real, possibly even (roughly) all of it. But for some unspecifiable portion, there could be some geo-politically motivated exaggeration to help "clarify" the situation.

Take that as a FWIW passing thought, read as loosely as possible to increase its perceived worth (that is, try considering a 0.5% exaggeration rate and say "OK, maybe" rather than imagining I mean it's all fake and calling me koo-koo, 'kay?).

Kooky is not the word I would use. "Intentionally misinformed with views based unnecesarily solely on speculation," howerver is more accurate.

Photographs of the camps

Along with an interactive map of the five main Gulag camps by the Washington Post:

On the Map: Five Major North Korean Prison Camps

Show that it is not feasible, reasonable, or rational to assume that there is no one being held in the North Korean labor camps.

In addition, the prevalence of the accounts of people held at the camps, and people working at the camps also shows the speculation that there are no political prisoners in N. Korean Gulags is unrealistic.

I am soooo not an expert on N. Korea, and would have little to add other than those FWIW points and the little thought exercise above.

Ok.

 

[HoverBoarder]

I think they were "staged" in the sense they never happened.

North Korea has from time to time had epidemics of bad traffic accidents in which people were killed. Although this is from memory, I seem to remember that some of the abductees from Japan suddenly died in a rash of traffic accidents and suicides on the same day. The inference made by those who were given the information is that they were killed (or at least, disappeared) in a purge.

Those who watch North Korea will know that these sudden train and traffic accidents and suicides tend to occur in quick succession. I have also heard it said that the somewhat unbelievable timing is also deliberate as a thinly-veiled warning to others to obey the regime.

Well they didn't exactly publish articles of killing people in staged accidents, so it would be fairly unlikely that they would have used that as a cover.

However, either way, it's pretty bad. If they are using a "staged bizarre execution" as a way of covering up for bigger problems, than there is definitely something pretty majorly wrong with the Country.

 

[HoverBoarder]

A video on the North Korean Gulags

 

[angrysoba]

I was wondering about that myself. Why go to all the trouble of "staging" a traffic accident if you're North Korea? They probably just make the victim disappear and they tell his family and the official news media, which they control, that he died in a traffic accident.

Yes, that's what I imagine. If you've ever seen North Korean roads then the story of a traffic accident seems almost ludicrous. There are barely any cars on the roads and outside of the main cities the roads tend to be very long, straight and about six lanes wide.

 

[BStrong]

Considering that NK has one of the largest existing ammunition stockpiles in artillery, mortar and rocket types in the world, maybe they're just using up old stock.

 

[angrysoba]

Well they didn't exactly publish articles of killing people in staged accidents, so it would be fairly unlikely that they would have used that as a cover.

I don't know what you mean. I am not saying the North Korean regime advertises the fact that the traffic accidents were staged. Is that what you thought I was saying?

 

[HoverBoarder]

I don't know what you mean. I am not saying the North Korean regime advertises the fact that the traffic accidents were staged. Is that what you thought I was saying?

Oh, sorry for the confusion.

I don't know if they would go through with a real staged accident to cover up the executions or not, but I do think that Kim Jung-Un has a reason to be somewhat secret with some of the upper level killings to consolidate control.

This is not like the normal everyday peasant killing. Some of the generals do hold power, although I don't see any major threat to Jung-Un's power any time soon.

Regular political executions are just business as usual for N. Korea.

 

[Border Reiver]

That has to be the least efficient way to carry out an execution ever.

Mortars can't be "zeroed" in the same way that a rifle is zeroed - you can use your firing tables to predict approximately where the round will go, but the Probable Errors in Range and Dispersion mean that you're landing in an area around that point, provided you've accounted for the meteorlogical conditions, barrell wear, variations in the ammunition lot, and any errors in laying the tube. The result would probably kill the dude, but the "obliteration" deal wouldn't happen.

Apologies for the gunner rant.