Norad?

[Reheat]

I agree that 9/11 was far from normal in every way; scrambling a fighter to a suspect craft, however, is very routine.

No, it isn't. If you have evidence to support this, let's see it. Otherwise, you're stating an intentional falsehood.

Scoggins' own words were "it seemed like an eternity."

I'd say you and Griffin are the only ones who care what Scoggins said.

We have every right to suspect that the delay of the Otis fighters, like the order to send the Langley fighters east, were deliberate. These actions are inexplicable, yet fit right in with the plans of the conspirators to carry out the attacks. The fact that the recordings of the NEADS personnel handling the scrambles have mysteriously disappeared only adds to the suspicion.

There was no delay and there was NO ORDER to send the Langley fighters east. That decision was made by the Flight Leader in conjunction with Departure Control. The actions are very normal as they did not yet have a target, they flew a standard departure.

I've told you that it would have made no difference if they had turned directly toward Washington. The outcome would have been the same either way.

All of the actions are only suspicious because of your ignorance.

 

[Reheat]

This whole explanation seems downright weird. Why would you have to review tapes to determine why the Langley fighters were launched? Why would it take a couple of years? Why not just ask the person responsible for their launching? Presumably that would be Maj. Fox at NEADS.

Do you expect them to take out a full page ad in the New York Times or the Washington Post?

I think the explanation put forth by David Ray Griffin is more plausible.

Only because it fulfills your fantasy.

The initial story was that the fighters were launched in response to the hijacking of AAL77 at about 9:24. When it was pointed out that that would have been plenty of time to nonetheless intercept AAL77 before it hit the Pentagon, a new story had to be concocted. That new story was the "Phantom Flight 11." That explains why this phantom flight was never mentioned until the release of the NORAD tapes in 2004.

I'm under the impression that you are a troofer searching for the TROOTH. The truth means something to normal people.

They did not launch at 9:24, they were scrambled at 9:24 and launched at 9:30. Scramble means go to the cockpit and taxi for take-off. Launch means they have released brakes and are rolling down the runway.

This whole issue gets back to the theme I am hammering away at. Who exactly was issuing the orders to the pilots of the fighters, and why have they not been held accountable?

Why are you not held accountable for posting lies on the Internet?

 

[beachnut]

You are debunked the second you mention Griffin

This whole explanation seems downright weird. Why would you have to review tapes to determine why the Langley fighters were launched? Why would it take a couple of years? Why not just ask the person responsible for their launching? Presumably that would be Maj. Fox at NEADS.

I think the explanation put forth by David Ray Griffin is more plausible. The initial story was that the fighters were launched in response to the hijacking of AAL77 at about 9:24. When it was pointed out that that would have been plenty of time to nonetheless intercept AAL77 before it hit the Pentagon, a new story had to be concocted. That new story was the "Phantom Flight 11." That explains why this phantom flight was never mentioned until the release of the NORAD tapes in 2004.

This whole issue gets back to the theme I am hammering away at. Who exactly was issuing the orders to the pilots of the fighters, and why have they not been held accountable?

Griffin is all hearsay, no action. He is the top idiot in the truth movement; not one original thought, no clue, no facts, just lies, Griffin.

It was not routine to intercept planes over the USA. Sorry, but point out one intercept over the USA 6 years before 9/11 that took less than 60 minutes. Post just one intercept smart guy. You have yet to say anything that makes sense.

 

[Calcas]

A-Train,

You know Scoggins is a member here, right? He has made a number of posts on this matter and DOES NOT believe there was any stand down.

Why don't you ask him yourself?

 

[Cheap Shot]

I think the explanation put forth by David Ray Griffin is more plausible. The initial story was that the fighters were launched in response to the hijacking of AAL77 at about 9:24. When it was pointed out that that would have been plenty of time to nonetheless intercept AAL77 before it hit the Pentagon, a new story had to be concocted. That new story was the "Phantom Flight 11." That explains why this phantom flight was never mentioned until the release of the NORAD tapes in 2004.

So if this is true why do you wish to go any further. Phantom Flight 11 is the call I made, so basically you are calling me a treasonist. That I was put up to this, to make this call or that I was a patsie, that someone would know that I would be listening on this Telcon Bridge at the exact moment, so they could make this statement and then they know I would immediatelly call NEADS with it. A-Train you have solved the mystery of 9-11.

Or maybe just as DRG has left some doubt in his book about Phantom Flight 11, with mentioning of morphing technology so that these tapes could possibly have been made at a later date, then why is it when I heard the tapes it was verbatim to what I said. Wow some morphing technology it repeats exactly as what was said.

The call was made, period. NEADS reacted to it, and quickly I might add. I wasn't put up to it. We didn't make the tapes two years later, that is what what was said. As far as Otis getting off late different story and different circumstances at the time.

 

[Calcas]

So if this is true why do you wish to go any further. Phantom Flight 11 is the call I made, so basically you are calling me a treasonist. That I was put up to this, to make this call or that I was a patsie, that someone would know that I would be listening on this Telcon Bridge at the exact moment, so they could make this statement and then they know I would immediatelly call NEADS with it. A-Train you have solved the mystery of 9-11.

Or maybe just as DRG has left some doubt in his book about Phantom Flight 11, with mentioning of morphing technology so that these tapes could possibly have been made at a later date, then why is it when I heard the tapes it was verbatim to what I said. Wow some morphing technology it repeats exactly as what was said.

The call was made, period. NEADS reacted to it, and quickly I might add. I wasn't put up to it. We didn't make the tapes two years later, that is what what was said. As far as Otis getting off late different story and different circumstances at the time.

CS, their only defense (laughable as it is, but tragic too) is that YOU and the hundreds or THOUSANDS of others are all part of the conspiracy.

Yes, that's right, you MUST be in on it.

Lame excuses like "you just didn't know" lose credence after a certain point.

That's the point when the CT's claim YOU are part of the disinfo or 'gubmint' MIB crew.

They will never be convinced.

NEVER.

But, don't stop posting here to the others that may be here looking for actual answers.

BTW, did you ever try Rob B and his band of idiots at pft? That should be fun...

 

[Cheap Shot]

I went over to pilots for 9-11 or something like that last night, according to one of thier posts tar and feathering would probably be to good for me.

 

[A-Train]

So if this is true why do you wish to go any further. Phantom Flight 11 is the call I made, so basically you are calling me a treasonist. That I was put up to this, to make this call or that I was a patsie, that someone would know that I would be listening on this Telcon Bridge at the exact moment, so they could make this statement and then they know I would immediatelly call NEADS with it. A-Train you have solved the mystery of 9-11.

Yo, Cheap Shot. What's up, bro? Why the long face? What's all this talk about a treasonist? Did you have a bad day yesterday? A bad stint gettin your time at a sector? Did you have a deal-- and now you're takin it out on poor old A-Train?

Listen, dude. No one is accusing you of doing anything wrong. Not me, not Dr. Griffin, not anyone. So you called NEADS with a report of AAL11 still aloft; so what? What they did with that information is beyond your control or even knowledge. So it really has nothing to do with you.

Apparently, years after the event, someone heard your report on a tape, and decided to use it as a bogus rationale for scrambling the Langley jets. The only thing I'd fault you for is buying off on this incredible story so totally. Dr. Griffin summed up your situation quite articulately, in this quote (one of my favorites) from his book:

One question is whether someone at the FAA’s Boston Center (Scoggins) and someone at NEADS came to think that AA 11 might have still been in the air. A very different question is whether that belief is what led the Langley fighter jets to be scrambled.
With regard to this latter question, we also need to distinguish between what Scoggins believes happened and what really happened. Having corresponded with Scoggins, I am convinced that he believes that the Langley fighters were scrambled because of his communication to NEADS that AA 11 was still airborne. But his belief does not entail that this is what really happened. Not being privy to all the communications between Boston and NEADS or to the communications involving the military officers who would have made the decision, we have no basis for saying that NEADS, which was so dreadfully slow in scrambling fighters in response to the real AA 11, immediately did so in response to the phantom version. Scoggins may simply be among the people who have been deceived by the new story. Debunking 9/11 Debunkers

Come to think of it, I don't even necessarily fault the individuals who concocted this possible fabrication. It may very well be that they did so only to cover up what they thought was incompetence on the part of their buddies in NEADS, not to cover up a potential stand-down, the details of which they don't comprehend.

You know, there's a huge difference between participating in the carrying out of 9/11 and any potential stand-down; and participating in a coverup. Most of the people who participate in a coverup are basically good people who don't really understand what it is they are covering up.

Or maybe just as DRG has left some doubt in his book about Phantom Flight 11, with mentioning of morphing technology so that these tapes could possibly have been made at a later date, then why is it when I heard the tapes it was verbatim to what I said. Wow some morphing technology it repeats exactly as what was said.

The call was made, period. NEADS reacted to it, and quickly I might add. I wasn't put up to it. We didn't make the tapes two years later, that is what what was said. As far as Otis getting off late different story and different circumstances at the time.

I think Griffin was wrong to even mention voice morphing. I tried to tell him that before he published the book, but he didn't listen. Voice morphing didn't happen with the phone calls from the planes, and I doubt it was used on the NORAD tapes.

I prefer Robin Hordon's suggestion that instead the tapes were cherry picked. Only recordings that support the government's story were used, the rest were discarded. Where, for example, are the recordings of the instructions from NEADS to the fighter pilots in the time frame from 8:20 to 10:06?

Can you help me figure that one out, bud?

 

[Par]

We have every right to suspect that the delay of the Otis fighters, like the order to send the Langley fighters east, were deliberate.

You indeed have the right to suspect absolutely anything you please. You do not have the right, however, to have the external world align itself so that your suspicions are founded on compelling evidence, for anyone else to take those suspicions seriously, or for those implicated to jump through your whimsical hoops to disabuse you of them.

 

[Reheat]

I think Griffin was wrong to even mention voice morphing publish a book on something he knows nothing about.

There, I fixed it for you.

 

[A-Train]

You indeed have the right to suspect absolutely anything you please. You do not have the right, however, to have the external world align itself so that your suspicions are founded on compelling evidence, for anyone else to take those suspicions seriously, or for those implicated to jump through your whimsical hoops to disabuse you of them.

Except that my suspicions are founded on compelling evidence, which both I and David Ray Griffin have laid out in detail.

Do you have anything to say to counter the arguments we have laid out? No, I don't think you do. Because you haven't done any research and you don't understand the background of what we are discussing. So your only recourse is to stick your head in the sand, shout out that there was no stand-down, and wait upon the support of the ignorant majority who have an emotional desire to agree with you but who, like you, are not qualified to participate in this discussion.

Why don't you admit that you have nothing to add to this debate, because you don't understand the subject. Therefore, you ought to just leave.

 

[AMTMAN]

Except that my suspicions are founded on compelling evidence, which both I and David Ray Griffin have laid out in detail.

Do you have anything to say to counter the arguments we have laid out? No, I don't think you do. Because you haven't done any research and you don't understand the background of what we are discussing. So your only recourse is to stick your head in the sand, shout out that there was no stand-down, and wait upon the support of the ignorant majority who have an emotional desire to agree with you but who, like you, are not qualified to participate in this discussion.

Why don't you admit that you have nothing to add to this debate, because you don't understand the subject. Therefore, you ought to just leave.

Like your compelling evidence that the nose gear doors were a possible route of escape off a 767? Some researcher you are.

 

[Crungy]

It only "easily" accounts for the lack of intercepts for someone knows nothing about air traffic control and the military's air defense system. Yes you can tell the official story to a group of high school kids, or a group of senior citizens, and the story "easily" convinces them. But to those of us who have some expertise in these areas, or who have done a little research, the official accounts are preposterous.

Any day now, I'm waiting for you to talk about your "expertise" in these areas.

Waiting, Waiting, Waiting........

I'm waiting too. Sad how A-Train is avoiding Reheat, who is an expert in these matters, comments.

 

[AMTMAN]

I'm waiting too. Sad how A-Train is avoiding Reheat, who is an expert in these matters, comments.

That seems to be his habit.

 

[Digest]

Come to think of it, I don't even necessarily fault the individuals who concocted this possible fabrication. It may very well be that they did so only to cover up what they thought was incompetence on the part of their buddies in NEADS, not to cover up a potential stand-down, the details of which they don't comprehend.

So your saying all these people realize there was a stand down but no one has come forward with this damning evidence yet?

You know, there's a huge difference between participating in the carrying out of 9/11 and any potential stand-down; and participating in a coverup. Most of the people who participate in a coverup are basically good people who don't really understand what it is they are covering up.

I totally disagree The is no difference in executing or covering up the execution - (See Nuremberg Trials) --- Your circular arguements boreder on stupidity.

I think Griffin was wrong to even mention voice morphing. I tried to tell him that before he published the book, but he didn't listen. Voice morphing didn't happen with the phone calls from the planes, and I doubt it was used on the NORAD tapes.

Well at least we agree on something - i wonder how he could turn down such advice

I prefer Robin Hordon's suggestion that instead the tapes were cherry picked. Only recordings that support the government's story were used, the rest were discarded. Where, for example, are the recordings of the instructions from NEADS to the fighter pilots in the time frame from 8:20 to 10:06?

so the other tapes where they ask when is the thermite going to be set off... or how about the turn by turn directions to the guy tieh the remote-control plane station.... are these what your talking about--- so in theory then now your also saying the the NORAD station is also in on the 9/11 conspiracy...how many people are included in this master secret plan....

Can you help me figure that one out, bud?

i doubt anyone here wants to be your "bud"

 

[A-Train]

So your saying all these people realize there was a stand down but no one has come forward with this damning evidence yet?

That's exactly what I'm not saying. When the NORAD system failed to intercept the 9/11 planes, most of the people within that system assumed "we screwed up, somehow." That their lines of communication may have been tampered with to affect a stand-down probably did not occur to most of them.

So they think they are covering up their own screw-up, not a stand-down. I can understand, and forgive that mentality.

I totally disagree The is no difference in executing or covering up the execution - (See Nuremberg Trials) --- Your circular arguements boreder on stupidity.

The Nuremberg Trials were an abomination of Anglo-Saxon principles of justice, and a disgrace to Western Civilization in general.

Common sense says there's a huge difference between committing a crime and covering it up-- especially if the people covering it up are not aware of the magnitude of what they are covering up.

so the other tapes where they ask when is the thermite going to be set off... or how about the turn by turn directions to the guy tieh the remote-control plane station.... are these what your talking about--- so in theory then now your also saying the the NORAD station is also in on the 9/11 conspiracy...how many people are included in this master secret plan....

How many people? Perhaps as few as one-- working, of course, with an outside agency to affect a stand down.

I'm interested in the lines of communication from NEADS to the pilots of the fighters. I'd like to know who ordered who to do what, and when. I'm trying to get some help on this from experts like Cheap Shot and Gumboot, but so far have had no luck.

 

[Digest]

That's exactly what I'm not saying. When the NORAD system failed to intercept the 9/11 planes, most of the people within that system assumed "we screwed up, somehow." That their lines of communication may have been tampered with to affect a stand-down probably did not occur to most of them.

So they think they are covering up their own screw-up, not a stand-down. I can understand, and forgive that mentality.[/QUOTE]
So your saying these people believe terrorists tampered with communication lines and caused a stand down? Do you understand where a stand down comes from - and from who can actually issue a stand down?

The Nuremberg Trials were an abomination of Anglo-Saxon principles of justice, and a disgrace to Western Civilization in general.

Common sense says there's a huge difference between committing a crime and covering it up-- especially if the people covering it up are not aware of the magnitude of what they are covering up.

Ahh so no need to punish those silly germans for killing millions of people....
And your saying people dont understand the Magnitude of 9/11 how is that possible?

How many people? Perhaps as few as one-- working, of course, with an outside agency to affect a stand down.

an agency that would have to have complicit knowledge and consisit of hundereds if not more -- you forgot to clarify that part...

 

[Drudgewire]

It's possible that the earth does not rotate around the sun, but an educated rational person would require proof that it doesn't.

Can someone remind me who is famous for proving that? I always thought it was Galileo but Alex Jones says his claim to fame was proving the world was round.

 

[Norseman]

The planes were only launched at 8:45, despite the fact that NEADS was told of a certain hijacking at 8:36. And Griffin lays out the evidence that NEADS was certainly notified even earlier of the potential for the need for an emergency scramble.

A-Train, what difference would it have made if the fighters hypothetically had managed to intercept Flight 11 before it hit WTC 1?

And what orders or instructions would have been given to the fighter pilots?

 

[dudalb]

A-Train, what difference would it have made if the fighters hypothetically had managed to intercept Flight 11 before it hit WTC 1?

And what orders or instructions would have been given to the fighter pilots?

The Evidence does not matter to A Train; all that matters is his conviction that the Jews were behind it all.