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NORAD Tapes
- Thread starter Calcas
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The question is not when the FAA knew, it is when NEADS knew there was definitely a hijacking. Speed is relevant and you keep being confused.
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A-Train, we are going around in circles, this was fully explained in the recent NORAD thread here by Cheap Shot and Darth Rotor etc.
Ultimately NORAD were only informed about Flight 11 by Boston center (who I might add broke protocol doing this) at 8:37:52 with the now infamous exchange...
...so in effect you are almost implying that there was a "stand down" (to use Griffin's language) at the FAA and not NORAD.
Yes, you are correct the fighters were scrambled at 8:45 but this has also been fully covered and I still see no evidence of a "stand down", but as I say it's only my opinion based on the information I've seen.
As has been said repeatedly though, it's all moot because Flight 11 was not considered a hostile target at this time, in fact when Mohammed Atta was heard by air traffic controllers between 8:24 and 8:34 he said they were going back to the airport, see this post of mine for what I'm referring to.
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I know what you wrote. You keep trying to imply that the Langley fighters did not intercept and shoot down AA77 because they flew a standard departure rather than going to the Pentagon/Washington, DC area. THAT IS THE POINT!
Don't you wish! Are my questions too hard to address?
If Huckabone knew about AA77 WHY DID HE ASK GIANT KILLER TO SEND THE LANGLEY FIGHTERS TO BALTIMORE?
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This is unfair, I'd just like to state, for any lurkers out there, that Reheat was a USAF pilot for 21 years, including flight experience in F111's and F16's.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2892231#post2892231
Please! Some of this stuff is still classified "Owl Crotch Feather Plus".
You should know better.
And why would you be qualified? Who are you and what do you do that makes you qualified to talk about NORAD and flying?
Hay A-Train,
Your DRG's theory about the NORAD response to the NYC situation have been thoroughly "SLAM DUNKED" repeatedly in two different threads. It is a dead issue. If you have any pride at all remaining you'll go over to LCF and post where even they disagree with you DRG. I think you've got more sympathy at p4t. Perhaps they can sooth your wounds!
You DRG has stated that the Langley Fighters were actually launched as a response to AA77 and the "Slow Down" resulted when the Langley Fighters proceeded East bound on a standard departure as opposed to toward Washington, DC. Why then:
If Huckabone knew about AA77 WHY DID HE ASK GIANT KILLER TO SEND THE LANGLEY FIGHTERS TO BALTIMORE?
If Huckabone knew about AA77 WHY DID HE ASK GIANT KILLER TO SEND THE LANGLEY FIGHTERS TO BALTIMORE?
I promise not to lose my head again. I simply forgot it was classified TS
That is one of the most arrogant statements I have ever seen.
IIRC, Reheat was a Lt Col and 21 year Air Force vet with hundreds (thousands?) of hours in fighter bombers and jet trainers.
Stanleywinthrop, who is also fairly new here, is also an experienced fighter pilot.
You have the nerve to state they're "not qualified." That almost makes me want to puke.
BTW, I'm going to "bump" the thread on "what is your 911 expertise" so that some of these newcomers can add their areas of experience to the list.
And, I would love for A-Train to post his. (I know, "I memorized of all of DRG's books" may not sound that great but at least he's got THAT going for him...)
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I honestly don't know why A-Train is doing this but he's being incredibly dishonest when he say's from 8:20 because he's almost implying that Boston center should have notified NEADS either at 8:20 or soon after, which ultimately they did once they'd ascertained what was happening.
At 8:13:47, Boston Center instructed the pilots of Flight 11 to ascend to a cruising altitude of 35,000 feet, they never responded to this request. Remember at this point it was just another ordinary day, in fact this was the first indication that something hand happened on board that flight. Boston center then tried repeatedly to contact the aircraft (I've highlighted the voice of Mohammed Atta in bold)…
After Mohammed Atta accidentally broadcast the message he thought was being aimed at the passengers between 8:24 and 8:25 the Boston center controller realized this was indeed a hijacking. At this point he alerted his supervisor, who assigned another controller to assist him, and he redoubled his efforts to ascertain the flight's altitude. The transponder had been turned off so they were having difficulty doing so. What's more important though is at this point the controller didn't understand the initial transmission so the manager of Boston Center instructed his quality assurance specialist to "pull the tape" of the radio transmission, listen to it closely, and report back.NTSB Report said:
Once they had done this, sometime between 8:25 and 8:32, and in accordance with the FAA protocol, Boston Center managers started notifying their chain of command that Flight 11 had been hijacked.
At 8:37:52, Boston Center broke standard protocol and contacted NEADS directly. All this took place between 8:20 and 8:38, quite remarkable considering it had been just another regular day prior to that.
Oh and as far as I'm concerned the speed of the fighters is very relevant in understanding what happened on that day especially considering the fighters where only scrambled at 8:46 and airborne at 8:52.
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I was trying to be polite by saying "it's only my opinion", I could have been easily more abrupt but I chose not too.
You are correct about when the voice from the cockpit was heard. It was 8:24, not 8:20. I stand corrected.
However, the transponder was turned off and the plane veered wildly off course at 8:21. That is a very radical series of events that should have resulted in a call to NEADS as soon as possible. Though it was not known for certain to be a hijack at that time, the fact that a hijacking was a distinct possibility is enough to warrant an immediate call to NEADS.
Colin Scoggins (Cheap Shot) agrees with me on this:
P.S. Stop saying Mohammad Atta said this or said that. There is no evidence that it was Atta's voice-- or the voice of any of the other alleged hijackers-- being broadcast from the cockpit.
Are you lonely A-Train? Does no one care about you? If you go over to Robbie you might get some attention and he might even agree with you and make you feel good again!
Now, when did you say NEADS knew there was a problem with AA11?
Where is the evidence of a NORAD stand down? Produce it or SHUT UP and go back to your playpen and play with your rattler.
Now, when did you say NEADS knew there was a problem with AA11?
Where is the evidence of a NORAD stand down? Produce it or SHUT UP and go back to your playpen and play with your rattler.
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The voice heard from Flight 11 was allegedly Mohammed Atta and based on who had received flight training prior to the events of 9/11 it can be assumed he was the one flying the plane. What we can be certain of is that it was the voice of one of the 5 hijackers onboard; it was definitely not the captain of Flight 11.
I'm comfortable with the fact that it was Atta based on what we know, he was flying the plane and spoke relatively good english etc (many of the hijackers couldn't speak english very well), and that he was a senior member of the plot.
Dare I ask, at the very least do you think it was one of the hijackers?
It was definitely one of the hijackers. That it was Atta or any other Arab is pure conjecture. That hijackers smart enough to subdue eight pilots-- using only knives, without any of those pilots being able to alert ATC in any way-- and then turn off the transponders...... were then dumb enough to broadcast a message over the frequency that was meant for the cabin.... then doing this on at least two of the flights......
I don't believe it. I believe the messages were broadcast by the real hijackers, who were not Arabs, but broadcast them intentionally over the freq while trying to sound like Arabs-- for the purpose of framing Arabs for the hijackings.
But this is off topic...
PS to Reheat: Who the H*** is "Robbie"?
I would believe that to be Rob Balsamo.
Creator and resident dictator at pft.
Are you not a member there?
And, btw. We're still waiting for you to post your credentials here other than parroting DRG.