Non-Existent Placebo Effect

[Donks]

I don't think anyone here suggested that "concentrated chemicals" cure. Therapeutic doses of drugs are pretty small.

Compared to homeopathic solvent, they are extremely concentrated

 

[Mojo]

Compared to homeopathic solvent, they are extremely concentrated

Yes, but you know where Kumar's going with this: he'll get onto his "modern medicine is harmful" kick if we don't head him off.

 

[Donks]

Yes, but you know where Kumar's going with this: he'll get onto his "modern medicine is harmful" kick if we don't head him off.

I'm just hoping he starts preaching genocide again. That's much more entertaining to watch.

 

[Vim Razz]

Pls think about; "Shocking effect" which I mentined in bold letters.

If the immune system is already under strain then adding additional stress does not help the situation.

Glucocorticoids are not a foreign substance to our body, so its optimal quantity may not matter but its imbalanced quantity can matter.

Glucocorticids are only present within the bloodstream when they have been released as part of the stress reaction. There is no "ballanced" level.

What about gastric acid? Does it got effected by stresses or mental stressess or polluted environment & modern lifestyle?

Digestion is inhibited as part of the "fight or flight" response. Chronic interuption can lead to problems in sever cases (ulcers, for example). I do not know enough about the effects of polution or nutrition (as part of our modern lifestyle) on digestion to coment on them.

Btw, are we sure that auto-immunity is always harming not an immune defense response?

Yes. Autoimmune disorders are classified as such because they are harmful. Otherwise, they would not be called autoimmune disorders.

Initiation of placebo effect by any mean can be thought as " by healing agent"--medicine or remedy.

Healing is not magic. Specific treatments have specific effects to mitigate problems that the body cannot handle on it's own: antibiotics kill bacteria, antidepressants ballance brain chemistry, and so forth. There's no such thing as a "healing agent" that simply goes in and fixes things.

On the occasions that there is a physiological aspect to the placebo effect at all, it may be more appropriate to say that it prevents bodily responses from aggravating the problem rather then suggest that it actively heals them. If the body's recovery systems were able to heal the problem on their own there'd be no need for assistance in the first place.

So it can't be said that any healing/treatment if initiated by any mean--chemical or otherwise--can be a fake effect--as sometimes we think to placebo effect?

A placebo effect is, by definition, a fake effect; it is not caused by the applied treatment.

No one can say what really cure. You say concentrated chemicals, homeopathy says "vital force" some other say "GOD", Some other may say "self healing power or defence mechanism". There can be so many theories.

That is why theories must be carefuly tested. Some chemicals have passed such tests to prove their effectiveness and these are generaly known as "medicines".

God or the "vital force" have yet to pass any tests that prove they have any influence at all, beneficial or not. Therefore they cannot be used as a basis for medical treatment.

Some may present observable but not measurable real effects other observable real+ measurable adversities some other may only present only adversities.

All observable effects are measureable.


Edit: @%$# grammar...

 

[Kumar]

Vim Razz

Thanks. I feel to assess effect of any medicine we may need to assess its effect on immune system, on acid/base water/mucus balance, on body tempreture etc. In one system just balancing of body's bio chemicals esp. bio-minerals, trace elements, body's environments-acid/base water/mucus balance, body tempretureetc only, cure. These are are not toxic to pathogens then how cure in achieved. Can we cure everything or most of things by these means--i.e. mobilising accumulated biochemical due to any physiological disorder along with just balance food?

I have two thoughts:-

Can't body system encourage autoimmunity to harm temopoarily, substances of lower importance to protect whole body? Can't autoimmune related RBC changes be, to starve pathogens & cancer cellls in latent/tumor stage by withholding their oxygen & nurients? I think hunger/absorption in intestines, breathing problem, anemia etc can be related to it. We may need to link all body's non-induced or natural mechanisms with some good or to protect the life at some cost considerations.

What thining, thickning, excess or low intestinal mucus can do?

 

[Rolfe]

And this, from the guy that thinks water might come as H-O-H, and H-H-O, and O-H-H, and all sorts, and that when homoeopaths do their mojo it might produce H<SUB>4</SUB>O<SUB>2</SUB> and H<SUB>6</SUB>O<SUB>3</SUB> and who knows what.

Yeah, right....

Rolfe.

 

[Mojo]

When homeopathists do their WHAT?

 

[Rolfe]

Rolfe.