Non-Denominational Denominational Poll

[EdipisReks]

i voted that life and the origin of the universe are important. life, because there isn't a whole hell of a lot to do without it, and the origin of the universe because i believe that knowledge should be ever expanded. i'm basically a strong atheist, and a member of the EAC, the CEA, and the ECA, but not the CEA.

 

[Swishy McJackass]

I voted "Life is Important." Without life, I wouldn't be here. I would be, well, non-existant. Like when I die.

I also voted "I'm definitely right," but I think that's just a reflex from the many arguements between my wife and I about who's right.

 

[roger]

Since I was one of the people who felt they couldn't check any of the answers, let me explain why.

Questions of objective existence don't pose a problem. I've seen no evidence for gods, so harbor no belief in their existence.

The question "Do you believe that life is in its self important" impossible for me to answer, or to assign any meaning to. If I interpret it as "do you value your own life" my answer is yes, but that doesn't seem to be the point of the question, since it seems to be weeding out depressives rather than religious thought. Besides, the "in its self" phrase seems to be asking if there is an _objective_ value, importance, that life has. Given that "important" is a fuzzy, human invented idea, not to mention relative, I'd have to go with no. Is my existence important to my family and friends? yes. To my kitchen table? no. To the well being of this world or universe? Again, no.

 

[Jagged Blossom]

I am new here and just really need something to stimulate my brain. I feel stifled in my new town. Hopefully these boards will give me a boost.

To answer the questions, my response is "no" to every question. Though it's very difficult for me to admit these things to myself on a consistant basis.

I have spent the last year of my life battling my own inclination towards rejecting everything I have known from birth until now.

When I feel vulnerable, I immediately revert to thoughts of a god holding my hand, hearing my prayers, and preparing me for some greater challenge ahead. However, the logical side of me knows that gods/religion/afterlife is nothing more than a crutch we all create to help us get through life without being so afraid that we pee our pants everytime something goes wrong.

It SUX to admit that our lives are not really important in the scheme of things. It SUX to admit that once we die, it will all be over. It SUX to admit we are all we have.

Yet, rationally, I can't refute laws of human behavior that point toward people's need to explain what they can't comprehend...in this case, through complex religious scenarios.

I don't know, I am just really struggling to find myself right now. It is more difficult than I ever imagined to try and break free from my former self. I still walk the line between complacent, don't ask any questions Christian and screw them all, how can they be so blind atheiest... I hope to find a comfortable balance soon.

 

[evildave]

Toughen up a bit, Jagged Blossom. Sure, you're in a new environment, but confronting Christians directly will only get you a black eye.

In general, I don't open a discussion of religion with people I work with, or interact with on a daily business, because I never know who'll become "offended" by any trivial little thing I say. I've pissed off friends who wouldn't talk to me for a year over seemingly tiny things.

In general, if you can't discuss dirty/abnormal sex with someone, don't discuss religion.

At least on the web, nobody will try to beat your head in with whatever is close at hand for not believing as they sincerely do, that cosmic pink gophers made people 30 hours ago, and you were made with all those memories of a past life, and if you aren't converted within 48 hours, you'll disappear into the gopher 'abyss', along with them for not doing their job of turning you into a psycho like them.

I personally think of religion like a disorder, but I try not to confront the afflicted with their malady, as it would be akin to telling a leper how they should look. People either seek a cure for their malady, or you leave them alone. Unless, of course, they seek to "cure" you of your "malady" of not being exactly like them.

 

[triadboy]

Re: Re: Non-Denominational Denominational Poll

Welcome JB.

To answer the questions, my response is "no" to every question. Though it's very difficult for me to admit these things to myself on a consistant basis.

I also felt a 'no' was appropriate for every question, but (for some reason) thought I had to punch one of them. So I punched "Life is Important" - because life tends to flourish. (According to Dawkins - with a mind of its own)

I have spent the last year of my life battling my own inclination towards rejecting everything I have known from birth until now.

When it happens, it won't be a bad thing. When it happened to me, I was thunderstruck! All that crap I had learned from the very beginning just fell away. The guilt, fear, and apprehension left. There is no avenging god watching you. There is no hell awaiting you. YOU control life.

However, the logical side of me knows that gods/religion/afterlife is nothing more than a crutch we all create to help us get through life without being so afraid that we pee our pants everytime something goes wrong.

You have a great start. I don't know how old you are, but it took me 35 years to realize that.

It SUX to admit that our lives are not really important in the scheme of things. It SUX to admit that once we die, it will all be over. It SUX to admit we are all we have.

Our lives are not important if you examine it in context with the vast universe, however, our lives on earth are important to each of us in individual ways.

 

[geni]

Toughen up a bit, Jagged Blossom. Sure, you're in a new environment, but confronting Christians directly will only get you a black eye.

Nice generalisation there.

 

[evildave]

Thanks. Though a metaphorical 'black eye' can be as good as a bruise.

For instance, get that old gossip mill over something as tiny as "he/she isn't like one us" running full time when you're new and relatively friendless, and you could find almost any place is a very bleak place to live.

 

[geni]

Thanks. Though a metaphorical 'black eye' can be as good as a bruise.

For instance, get that old gossip mill over something as tiny as "he/she isn't like one us" running full time when you're new and relatively friendless, and you could find almost any place is a very bleak place to live.

So? You are still genrelising.

 

[Jagged Blossom]

Aww, thanks for the welcome ya'll. As far as confronting Christians head on, I never shy away from sharing my beliefs system but I believe that has to be tailored to the individual.

For instance, communicating with each one of you in the precise same manner probably wouldn't yield equal results. I believe that communication illustrates, better than any other indicator, the level of respect between humans.

I try NEVER to tell anyone else their beliefs are wrong, because I honestly do not feel that way. I know what I believe but I have no need to persuade others to feel similarly. Unless I am dating them, and then, they should follow suit to keep me happy. he he he

I guess I just don't want to get in the middle of any drama on the boards. I will do my best to ignore any sort of disruptive attacks on me or anyone else. I am here to have an outlet for expressing things I really can't express in other places. I am here to learn from people who are, no doubt, more highly educated and well read than myself. Most importantly, I am here to get away from stupid people...so if I see them on the boards, I will just do my best to run the other way!

Again, thanks a ton for the responses. I look forward to reading what you guys have to say, bouncing ideas off of you, and hopefully getting some feedback that stimulates thought processes that lead to a thousand epiphanies!

Have a great Saturday...it's rainy here. yuck!

 

[triadboy]

I am here to have an outlet for expressing things I really can't express in other places.

Same here. My wife is an atheist too, but she doesn't like to talk about the intricacies and evidences that point to that belief. She's not appalled that - in this time of scientific explosion - the year 2004 AD - there are people who would rather believe the science of the year 2004 BC! That boggles my mind!

I am here to learn from people who are, no doubt, more highly educated and well read than myself.

All you have to do is read evildave, Yahweh, Atlas to see there are some fine philosophical and educational resident voices here.

Have a great Saturday...it's rainy here. yuck!

80, Sunny, very slight breeze, no humidity here. It's like I live in Paradise. As you enter Tucson, there are two cherubs guarding the road.

Which brings up Eden. Of course, Eden does not represent an historical place and time. So what is it? I'm reading Joseph Campbell Thou Art That right now and he says:

God's idea, in this story, was to get Adam and Eve out of that Garden. What was it about the Garden? It was a place of oneness, of unity, of no divisions in the nature of people and things. When you eat the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, however, you know about pairs of opposites, which include not only good and evil, light and dark, right and wrong, but male and female, and God and Man as well.

I'm a big Campbell fan.

 

[Jagged Blossom]

She's not appalled that - in this time of scientific explosion - the year 2004 AD - there are people who would rather believe the science of the year 2004 BC! That boggles my mind!


Which brings up Eden. Of course, Eden does not represent an historical place and time. So what is it?

So glad your weather is so pleasant. We need the rain, so I suppose I am ok with a bit of wetness on the ground.

As for the evidences pointing toward athiesm, to be quite honest, I don't get overly enthusiastic about it either. Perhaps, that will come in time. For now, I am content realizing that logically there is no explaination for religion other than people's natural tendancy to want to explain the unexplained.

If there were similar logical evidence to point me in another direction, I would feel the need to research more heavily. I just don't see it, as of yet. There is still a tinge of guilt that runs through me everytime I acknowledge my rationalized view of life. Let's hope, like ya'll said, that it will disappear in time.

As for Eden. Eden, in my opinion, is what an individual creates as the epitome of their desire. I suppose the definition of Eden could shift as someone matures in their life. I would imagine Eden to be transferrable from one religion to the next...similar to Heaven...but more tangible. Who knows though? I certainly am in no position to make an educated statement concerning the definition of Eden.

Take care, and enjoy your weekend!

 

[evildave]

So? You are still genrelising.

Without knowing every detail of this person's situation, all I really can do is generalise.

My specific, individual, personal experience says that people who don't know me usually take it very, very badly when my lack of religion comes up.

Now then, in a new situation this may be only 50~60% of the people who you might meet. However, once the gossip starts, you're "sacrificing puppies" within the week, and the other 40~50% of the people will want nothing to do with you.

Generalising, but the more people who are involved, the more predictably negative the social outcome is. Make good friends BEFORE you let out the fact that you don't believe in their most cherished fairy tales, or you will generally get a larger portion of misery.

 

[fishbob]

I also didn't click "I'm definately right." So ... maybe I'm wrong about that.

I only checked number 9 - "I'm definitely right". I am absolutely certain that none of the other selections apply.

 

[Riddick]

What I find shocking is that you guys are happy with this limited life.

Can't you guys think bigger than the here and now?

Let's say you're a lucky one and live to 105years. I mean Jesus, you were supposed to live forever. But nooooo, you're happy with 105. "Give me 105, I'm Good." That's all I need. Sheesh, you guys are an easy bunch to satisfy. Of course, some of you are happy with 72 years. Mindboggling.

I guess if you can't think in terms of an afterlife, it's not that big a deal to you?

It's like you have the title to a brand new Ferrari but instead receive an Accord. Oh yeah, I'm happy!

 

[Lord Emsworth]

I sometimes wish I had a spacecraft, like the "Heart of Gold."

I don't understand why you all stick to cars.

 

[roger]

Last time I checked, my desire for how I want the world to be does not affect how it really is.

But, let's check again, and see.....

Nope, reality didn't change due to my wishes.



We really need a shooting fish in a barrel smiley around here.

 

[Beleth]

What I find shocking is that you guys are happy with this limited life.

Who said we're happy with it?

Can't you guys think bigger than the here and now?

Yes. I can imagine lush, green fields, with birds chirping and squirrels eating out of my hand, and huge purple dragons that pick me up and whisk me off to whichever of my enchanted castles I want to take tea in today. I can think of lots of bigger things. What of it?

Let's say you're a lucky one and live to 105years. I mean Jesus, you were supposed to live forever.

Nothing lives forever. Therefore your statement that I was supposed to live forever fails on two counts.

It's like you have the title to a brand new Ferrari but instead receive an Accord. Oh yeah, I'm happy!

I'd rather have an actual Accord than a piece of paper that says I have a Ferrari but no Ferrari, yep.

 

[Beleth]

And oh yeah - I selected the first six choices but none of the others. That's 'cause I'm a Deist.

 

[evildave]

What I find shocking is that you guys are happy with this limited life.

Can't you guys think bigger than the here and now?

Yes, I look to a future when fundies are a universally recognized as a laughable and impotent minority, so more people could be in on the joke.

Let's say you're a lucky one and live to 105years. I mean Jesus, you were supposed to live forever. But nooooo, you're happy with 105. "Give me 105, I'm Good." That's all I need. Sheesh, you guys are an easy bunch to satisfy. Of course, some of you are happy with 72 years. Mindboggling.

72? 105? Way better than a lot of people get. I don't need to win the lottery. Just have enough.

Don't get me wrong, it would be nice to win the lottery, but all the wishful thinking in the world will not automatically make me win, even if I play the game religiously. I could luck out, but I could get struck by lightning 15 times and bit by a shark, which would be on a par with winning the lottery, and BTW, still excellent odds compared to your funny beliefs.

It's a sucker bet, and unfortunately it routinely fails to amaze me that people fall for it.

"You're guaranteed to have either won a million dollars, a fabulous new car, or a matching Bic pen and pencil set!" Send us $1000 for your prize registration fees and we'll get back to you REAL SOON!

Which one do you think the marks believe they've won?

Of course, the lottery you're talking about has never provably paid anyone. All I have is your word for it, and let's just say I have sincere doubts that you are playing by the rules you would claim are necessary to be eligible for this phantom prize.

So, what sort of idiots would play that game? I suppose if it's entertaining enough, it would be worth it, but honestly religion has always been a complete bore.

I have better things to spend my time and money on.

I guess if you can't think in terms of an afterlife, it's not that big a deal to you?

It's like you have the title to a brand new Ferrari but instead receive an Accord. Oh yeah, I'm happy!

A bird in hand... oh, but I see you've already dropped yours to chase through the bushes. I'll hold the flashlight, and try not to laugh out loud to startle the birdies you're chasing, shall I?

Honda Ranks as the Highest Non-Luxury Brand in J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study The 4-door Accord Sedan sounds like a very nice and practical car, really.

Besides, the Accord would get way, way better gas mileage, cost next to nothing to insure, seat five, not attract tickets, and have space in the back for stuff. Not to mention any service and upkeep it would need would be as nothing compared fo Ferrari service and parts.

I'd merrily sell you the papers right away for the phantom Ferrari you'll get to drive "forever", "after you die", and then buy the Accord and a house with a nice garage to park it in, and be happier in the long run. Oh wait, I already have a house, garage and adequately nice car. So, I suppose I could pay the mortgage down to zero and have an extra $60,000 to spend on a nice vacation, or a business start-up. Tough choice.

Here are the going rates for Ferraris.

Maybe I'll have to set up a PayPal account and an E*Bay auction for this? I hear there are billions more like you who'll totally invest in things, sight unseen, based on hear-say?

You'll get an everlasting Ferrari in Heaven after you die, and all you have to do is send me $1000 to register the cosmic paperwork with the appropriate deity for you! (Or a free pen and pencil set.) Money back guarantee if you are not satisfied! How can you lose? Just come back to life and ask for it back. Just make your check payable to the C.A.S.H. (Certainty Afterlife Savings Heritage).

Appeal to greed: It works so often it's really a tragic commentary on the human condition.