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Non-binary identities are valid

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I mean, it would be good to know, but I bet it's a much harder fix than the one already in place across the pond.
 
I don't think the method used by the Brit Awards is actually meant to be "a solution" to a problem, it's just the way things have always been.

It's actually the other way round - the method used by the Grammy Awards is a more recent change, so it's more likely to be framed as "a solution"?

Whether it's any better than my suggestion is hard to say - it doesn't seem to be working too well, or so I'm told.
 
Hell, to make things fair, we may need a “Best Heterosexual” category at the Grammys.

It’s a joke, but still.
 
Matthew Best said:
The problem we're talking about.
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The one about half the population who have traditionally been undervalued or the one about a tiny handful of people who supposedly have some intangible quality which we've yet to identify?

(Seems to me we have to take both problems into account, if the solutions involve trading off one group against another.)
 
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Emily's Cat said:
:boggled:

In this thread using the 'wrong' pronouns is tantamount to slavery.
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I just do not understand how you could be so wrong without it being intentional. Why did you pick out the slavery example, and not the farting example?

Did you even consider, before you got so triggered, that sometimes an example is just an example?
 
arthwollipot said:
That's right - most of the time you can assume that someone identifies as the gender they present as, and use pronouns accordingly. But there are a few who present ambiguously, and in such cases it is way better to ask, if they don't tell you upfront. As you can see <-- I'm in favour of telling people upfront, even though my presentation is not even remotely ambiguous. I would like to see more people - cis, trans or enby - do that.

Yep, that happens. As long as you recognise your mistake and endeavour to remember in the future, no-one will be offended. Everyone recognises that people mess up sometimes. The only way you'll have a problem with it is when you continue to mess up, or refuse to correct yourself.

And you know what? It gets even better. Several of my nonbinary acquaintances have talked about accidentally misgendering themselves! But one does get used to it over time.
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Exactly.

Where things go off the rails quickly, I think, is where people either a) treat this as some sort of anti-libertarian "compelled speech" nonsense and refuse to comply on principle, or b) take an ideological stand ("all males are he/him, and all females are she/her, and I refuse to accept otherwise").

It's quite something to observe.
 
Matthew Best said:
We were talking about this:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/mar/12/sam-smith-gender-2021-brit-awards
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Ok, maybe you could add some clarification about Sam Smith?

American here, who is not familiar with Smith. They have a guy's name, a guy's appearance and traditional guy's dress, and identifies as gay, which is by definition a guy who is attracted to other guys. By any standard, they is a guy. There is nothing 'non-identified' about them, objectively.

To some of us, that makes the whole 'but not really' thing, complete with jazz hands, a little capricious. If they does literally everything in appearance, behavior, and self-identified orientation as a man, than what is this whole 'no really dude, I'm totally neither' thing about?

Not trying to be difficult, btw. This is one of those things I genuinely don't get.
 
I'm afraid you'll just have to ask them yourself. I have no idea other than what is in the article.

ETA but just being an American is no excuse - Smith has won an Oscar and a Golden Globe so they are not some obscure Brit that you could never have heard of.
 
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Matthew Best said:
I'm afraid you'll just have to ask them yourself. I have no idea other than what is in the article.

ETA but just being an American is no excuse - Smith has won an Oscar and a Golden Globe so they are not some obscure Brit that you could never have heard of.
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I would just like to mention that most people who have won Oscars and Golden Globes are very likely to be, and remain, obscure to me because those are not things, or people, that I have any interest in. I could have heard of this Smith but I did not. And now that I have I have no interest in learning any more, so he/she/it will remain obscure. Not everyone has the same interests as yourself.
 
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